4 in 10 Americans live paycheck to paycheck

[MichaelB]

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Originally Posted by Bir48die I have a coffee cup my daughter bought me. It says "silently correcting your grammar".

That’s a great inscription for a mug.

[joeea]

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Originally Posted by RAE Sometimes I wonder how our US economy can be declared to be "healthy" by so many economists, and even "firing on all cylinders" when I read articles like this. "4 in 10 adults say they couldn't produce $400 in an emergency without sliding into debt" It's disturbing to me that so many people live like this. I know that some (maybe most?) have made poor choices that have contributed to their situation, but it seems that there are many others who work hard but barely earn enough $$ to survive, much less save anything. I think the high cost of rent in many locations across the country is killing a lot of people........they pay such a high % of their income in rent that there is not a whole lot left over for anything else. I don't see how an economy like this is sustainable over the long-term.

The economy clearly doesn't affect everyone equally. And the inequality has become more acute in recent years. That is a worry as far as "sustainability".

I don't believe that most have made poor choices. I think luck is a big factor. I know how lucky I am to have been born when I was, to have lived in this country, to have gotten the education I did, to have abilities in a field that was in high demand, to have married someone with a similar financial outlook, to have always been well-insured and relatively healthy, etc, etc.

I know lots of people who haven't been nearly as lucky as I was.

[harllee]

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Originally Posted by joeea The economy clearly doesn't affect everyone equally. And the inequality has become more acute in recent years. That is a worry as far as "sustainability". I don't believe that most have made poor choices. I think luck is a big factor. I know how lucky I am to have been born when I was, to have lived in this country, to have gotten the education I did, to have abilities in a field that was in high demand, to have married someone with a similar financial outlook, to have always been well-insured and relatively healthy, etc, etc. I know lots of people who haven't been nearly as lucky as I was.

Yes, there is some luck to it but there are also some people who are their own worst enemies. My SIL is one--she has no money sense and no common sense. DH has tried to help her and give her financial advice but it is just ignored. She lives paycheck to paycheck and of course does not have enough money to make the payment on her leased BMW.

[jollystomper]

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Originally Posted by joeea I don't believe that most have made poor choices. I think luck is a big factor. I know how lucky I am to have been born when I was, to have lived in this country, to have gotten the education I did, to have abilities in a field that was in high demand, to have married someone with a similar financial outlook, to have always been well-insured and relatively healthy, etc, etc. I know lots of people who haven't been nearly as lucky as I was.

"Luck" is part of it, but it is also taking advantage of opportunities. That looks like "luck", but it is more than that. I have used this sports analogy before - some are born with better athletic abilities than others, but that alone does not dictate how far they can go with those abilities, they must be willing to apply themselves and not coast, or they will find others with lesser talent but who work harder pass them by.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by Bir48die I have a coffee cup my daughter bought me. It says "silently correcting your grammar".

.

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by joeea ......... I think luck is a big factor..........

When something good happens to me it is due to my diligence and good work ethic. When something bad happens, it is bad luck.

[daylatedollarshort]

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Originally Posted by ownyourfuture So here is my point: I estimate that the cost of living has gone up by 1,000 percent since my days in college. Today’s apartment rents are $800, cars $30,000, & candy bars $1.00. Yet the minimum wage, even with this last increase, is nowhere close to $17.50 an hour. One cannot live, even modestly, on today’s minimum wage.

Excellent points. I made around $3 an hour in high school and college years, even doing contract programming work for my university. But I just ran an inflation calculator and that would mean making $17 today. The minimum wage here is $11, with very high rent costs.

[Redbugdave]

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Originally Posted by joeea The economy clearly doesn't affect everyone equally. And the inequality has become more acute in recent years. That is a worry as far as "sustainability". I don't believe that most have made poor choices. I think luck is a big factor. I know how lucky I am to have been born when I was, to have lived in this country, to have gotten the education I did, to have abilities in a field that was in high demand, to have married someone with a similar financial outlook, to have always been well-insured and relatively healthy, etc, etc. I know lots of people who haven't been nearly as lucky as I was.

I know how lucky I am to have gotten the education and job I had, to have married someone with a similar financial outlook, not get divorced. That may be "luck", but probably not.

But then, many would not have moved around for a job, gone in the military, scrimp and saved, had no more kids than they could afford, nor pissed their money away on frugality. Could that be "luck", as well?

[tmm99]

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Originally Posted by Philliefan33 A couple of months ago the Treasurer of our HOA recommended that we change the payroll period of our hourly employees from every two weeks to twice per month, on the 15th and 30th. (The change would simplify the bookkeeping, avoiding an accrual for pay periods that spanned the end of the month. He wasn’t asking to change anyone’s pay rate. Just go from getting a paycheck every other Friday to getting a paycheck on the 15th and the 30th. The uproar from other board members was remarkable. The man in charge of HR flat out said that his guys probably couldn’t make it with that change. One of the members said it wasn’t fair to go from 26 paychecks per year to 24. (Remember, no change in the hourly pay rate) The motion was defeated. All I could think was “math is hard”[emoji849]

Being paid every 2 weeks, I had a friend who considered the 3rd paycheck of some months (as some months would inevitably have 3 pay-outs instead of 2) to be a freebie, money she could spend freely. I was like, what?

[Lewis Clark]

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Originally Posted by joeea <snip>I don't believe that most have made poor choices. I think luck is a big factor. <snip>

There are definitely folks in both camps: some have run into bad luck beyond their control, and some just can't help making lousy choices. I have no idea how many are in each category.

I know several people who continually complain they have no money, then they go out and spend money unnecessarily. They buy new books instead of finding them in a library or a used book store. They eat many meals in fancy restaurants. They buy things for other people. And so on. For these folks, their "bad luck" came when they never learned how to be financially responsible.

[audreyh1]

There will always be people living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t really worry about it, but glad to know it’s only 4 in 10 in the US.

[Amethyst]

Our CU sent out the usual notice that Federal pensions for January would direct-deposit on Jan 1st, rather than Dec 31st, because by law they cannot be available in our accounts until the 2019 tax year.

This seemingly unnecessary notice is a tacit acknowledgment that some people could get upset, if their pension check were to be a day late.

[Tiger8693]

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Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Excellent points. I made around $3 an hour in high school and college years, even doing contract programming work for my university. But I just ran an inflation calculator and that would mean making $17 today. The minimum wage here is $11, with very high rent costs.

While i certainly can do the math on this and come up with $17/hr, I don't think High School and College kids (to which you are going back to compare) need $17/hr. Minimum wage used to be for that group, and those just starting out. I was never satisfied with that, and therefore worked hard to improve.

Outside of that, I did have a time, during separation and early divorce where I was at times paycheck to paycheck. It was a nerve-racking time, and I certainly don't wish that on anyone. Even more, I don't understand how people come to except it as a way of life. Despite keeping 2 houses up (where ex was living, and an apartment), paying support and child support, I quickly 're-assessed" and figured out how to live on MUCH less and get some money in savings so that i could sleep at night. It's not easy, most things aren't, but it was necessary for my mental health.

I have a large number of employees in my area, so I get a diverse cross section. It is a fact that there are those out there that live paycheck to paycheck, despite much higher than $17/hr, and they seem to sleep very well at night.... My DW and I marvel at that, while we have a 7 figure net worth and wonder if we will be able to retire and feel comfortable without worry. In some ways, I envy them.

[Closet_Gamer]

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Originally Posted by Rianne I struggle to understand folks who get a high utility from the act of frivolous consumption who deny themselves the satisfaction of a better probability of FIRE. Case in point, my other DB (I have 4 brothers) who delights in expensive vacations and luxury cars, clothes and house, looks at me with sad eyes and says "I have to go to work." He's two years older than me and FIRE is in the far distant future, if at all. It's all relative.

I think there is balance to be had. If my wife and I kept the hammer down all the way on spending, I could probably be done at 48-49 instead of 50-52.

As I've watched a series of colleagues deal with cancer, etc. we made an explicit decision to enjoy life a bit more along the way.

We all plan to live to 90. Mostly that doesn't happen and it can go south in a hurry.

[harllee]

My grandmother had a saying about some family members who could never save a dime but had fancy cars, she said they "were driving to the poor house in a Cadillac."

[Murf2]

My Dad would say, “all hat, no cattle.”

[garyt]

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Originally Posted by RAE Sometimes I wonder how our US economy can be declared to be "healthy" by so many economists, and even "firing on all cylinders" when I read articles like this. "4 in 10 adults say they couldn't produce $400 in an emergency without sliding into debt" ‘I see no way out’: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common __________________________________________________ _____________ It's disturbing to me that so many people live like this. I know that some (maybe most?) have made poor choices that have contributed to their situation, but it seems that there are many others who work hard but barely earn enough $$ to survive, much less save anything. I think the high cost of rent in many locations across the country is killing a lot of people........they pay such a high % of their income in rent that there is not a whole lot left over for anything else. I don't see how an economy like this is sustainable over the long-term.

I know lots of people who make enough to save some money but they spend it instead. Two newer cars, a bigger than needed house, monster TV's, all the premium channels cable, and on and on.

I work for a food service company and we have many minimum wage and just above employees who don't make enough to save and likely live paycheck to paycheck. I'd say that 4 out of 10 number is more like 2 out of 10 if you consider just those who have no choice.

[pjigar]

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Originally Posted by travelover Whoa -seriously? (About the cell phone comment)

I got my first cell phone in 2000. I shared it with my wife. Most people before that didn't have cell phone so the life evolved and worked fine without one. I don't think anyone can live efficiently without a cell phone now. The cell phone is like a car now: your life can be very hard without one if you are working or regularly socializing.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by travelover When something good happens to me it is due to my diligence and good work ethic. When something bad happens, it is bad luck.

+1 So True!

[38Chevy454]

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Originally Posted by tmm99 Being paid every 2 weeks, I had a friend who considered the 3rd paycheck of some months (as some months would inevitably have 3 pay-outs instead of 2) to be a freebie, money she could spend freely. I was like, what?

That could be true *IF* she has her budget set up based on 2 paychecks/month. Of course that takes discipline, which most of the population does not have.


I worked my way through college, I was essentially paycheck to paycheck at that time. However I knew my financial picture would change once I graduated and started my engineering career. I was not exactly paycheck to paycheck, but there have been times in the past I counted on the delay between mailing a bill payment and when the check would actually clear the checking account. Primarily because I was saving a good amount through 401k, but my take home was near my budget amount.