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Old 06-12-2009, 02:54 PM   #81
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LEO, correct me if I am wrong. The proper way to have an officer approach you is this: pull off the road or into a parking lot at the earliest safe opportunity. Lower window. Keep hands in plain sight on 10 and 2 on steering wheel. When the officer approaches, be polite and follow directions. Make slow movements. Wait until instructed to reach for the registration in glove box and license in your pocket. Do so deliberately and slowly.

Good way to avoid getting tazed and/or shot. Some may say we don't need to concede our rights to LEO in that manner. I'm just saying, I'd rather not get accidentally tazed or shot due to misconstrued actions, regardless of how much my estate may eventually recover for police brutality.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #82
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So that leaves grabbing and striking. As someone else eluded to that results in a violent confrontation and normally injuries to at least one person. Since I plan on going home at night, guess who is most likely going to be injured.
There are a lot of hypotheticals in this thread. I'll suggest another:

Tazing a 72 year old could have caused a heart attack and killed her.

"Taser International recommends not using the weapon on people who are physically infirm or elderly."

If she died, would we be having this conversation? Would it be justified to kill someone for a traffic stop, even if she had a lying, flithy, mouth?

Burn the village to save it!
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:44 PM   #83
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There are a lot of hypotheticals in this thread. I'll suggest another:
OK, I'll go next.

"Grandma" is very likely some misearble, god-forsaken Grandpa's wife. For years he's been living with what this unfortunate cop experienced for only a few minutes.

If Grandpa had the Taser, what would he have done?
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:46 PM   #84
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If Grandpa had the Taser, what would he have done?
Eventually he would have asked for a new set of batteries for it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:51 PM   #85
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If Grandpa had the Taser, what would he have done?
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:10 PM   #86
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Eventually he would have asked for a new set of batteries for it.
I think Taser is working on a version that you plug into the wall outlet for cases like this.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:27 PM   #87
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"Taser International recommends not using the weapon on people who are physically infirm or elderly."
You are correct. Fortunately for the officer he went to a training course that instructed him when exactly Taser International recommends the use of it's equipment and when the agency authorizes the use of a Taser. I've seen policies as liberal as, "I told you once, but you failed to comply so zap!" I've also seen policies as stringent as, "I told you fifteen times, I tried to use hand techniques, and I tried pepper spray, but none of them worked so, zap!" It is up to the agency to determine when the issued tools will be used. In this case it was clearly shown that the officer tried at least one time to restrain the woman using his hands, but she pulled away. That limits what else the officer could do. He either has to go harder with his hands, use spray (not normally a good option in an open environment) or use the Taser.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:37 PM   #88
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:27 PM   #89
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There are a lot of hypotheticals in this thread. I'll suggest another:

Tazing a 72 year old could have caused a heart attack and killed her.

"Taser International recommends not using the weapon on people who are physically infirm or elderly."

If she died, would we be having this conversation? Would it be justified to kill someone for a traffic stop, even if she had a lying, flithy, mouth?

Burn the village to save it!
But the way I view this is, the officer didn't taze the woman, the woman (literally - "I dare you") asked to be tazed, by her actions and words.

So, if a 72 YO woman is so concerned about the possible ill effects of being tazed, why push the officer into it?

We also are not seeing the cuts from the video - I'm guessing that those are the many times he tried to talk her down and calm her, but that wouldn't make good TV.

So saying that the cop would be "responsible" for her death as a result of tazing her, is like saying a cop is responsible for kidnapping (held against your will), if he catches a bank robber, and that bank robber serves time (held against his will). The bank robber did it to himself by his actions, this lady did it to herself by her actions. She is not a victim, she is an instigator.

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Old 06-12-2009, 08:13 PM   #90
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You mean, "Great" Grandma.
Bet ole Grandpa has got a new idol.

I can just see Grandpa now. Watching that video and when the officer reaches for the taser, Grandpa is screaming, "YES, YES, shot the ......"

When it's just a taser, he goes "aw heck".

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OK, I'll go next.

"Grandma" is very likely some misearble, god-forsaken Grandpa's wife. For years he's been living with what this unfortunate cop experienced for only a few minutes.

If Grandpa had the Taser, what would he have done?
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:53 AM   #91
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Seeing as we are having so much fun with this video and i guess the comments have about run thier course how about another one..
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:17 AM   #92
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The hilarious part is that having been around police a lot, that officer was originally just going to tell the guy to slow it down. Done all the time. More of a courtesy call and a wake up. The driver is immediately a confrontational jerk to the cop who kinda lets out a sigh, like "oh geez, one of these".

The driver is packing a .38 Micro Eagle in that Uncle Mike holster. Notice he keeps his right hand in a drawing position, lucky copper.
Hope the young guy ended up in the holding cell with Grandma.

Back in the good ole days, the Redondo Beach police would have had fill out their report, "man brought in unable to speak due to "......".

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Seeing as we are having so much fun with this video and i guess the comments have about run thier course how about another one..
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:58 AM   #93
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You can't be serious.
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:16 AM   #94
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Jambo.... if that is the video you want to present as 'bad police'.... well, you better look for another... I think he did a good job...

The guy was being a jerk... not listening to the cop... and even after being arrested was being a jerk... 'read me my rights', 'read me my rights'.... 'I should know what I am being arrested for...' 'I want to explain....'

Even the cop said it is not the place to explain on the side of the road....

If he were smart... he signs the ticket... goes back and takes pictures of what he was saying and IN COURT argues his case before a judge or a jury...

IMO, you can discuss with the cop what you are doing and if you think something different... but once he starts to write the ticket... then nothing else should be said....
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:16 AM   #95
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Jambo.... if that is the video you want to present as 'bad police'.... well, you better look for another... I think he did a good job...

..
I didnt post it as an example of good cop bad cop, just as another Tazing incident resulting from a drivers failure to sign a ticket.
If the guy was packing a gun of some kind i'm surprised the cop didnt say anything about it.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:57 AM   #96
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I dislike the way the news try to capitalize on sympathy words like grandma or widow . Let's face it there are a lot of real crazy people out there who happen to be grandmas or widows but the press uses those words to portray something totally different . Have you ever read where the person was a trashy loud mouthed pistol packing woman ?
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #97
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Jambo, look at the video again. When the officer put him on the ground and handcuffs him, he removes the gun and places it on the ground in front of his car. Also note how the driver points with his left arm trying to divert the officers attention and all the while keeping his right hand near his gun. Worrisome.

AND, in Utah, everyone carries, it's pretty much accepted and would not be a big deal.

You can easily tell it's not a cell phone case cause it's way WAY bigger than a cell phone.

And that info is easily available by calling the Vernal police at the number shown, ask for Sgt. Salzano.



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I didnt post it as an example of good cop bad cop, just as another Tazing incident resulting from a drivers failure to sign a ticket.
If the guy was packing a gun of some kind i'm surprised the cop didnt say anything about it.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:12 PM   #98
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Jambo, look at the video again. When the officer put him on the ground and handcuffs him, he removes the gun and places it on the ground in front of his car. Also note how the driver points with his left arm trying to divert the officers attention and all the while keeping his right hand near his gun. Worrisome.
I looked at it again and i guess you got better eyes than me because i dont see a gun. or this diversion to distract the officer.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:40 PM   #99
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I looked at it again and i guess you got better eyes than me because i dont see a gun. or this diversion to distract the officer.
I definitely see the guy going for something in his pocket. You don't see that? Good thing you aren't a cop or you would get shot from time to time.
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:04 PM   #100
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You have a bad experience with the police Jambo?
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