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Old 06-18-2009, 08:23 AM   #161
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Actually, I think the website is about Early Retirement. You may be thinking of MSNBC.

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Is there another purpose for this thread? Its a personal finance website, not a police review board.

What post here isn't armchair quarterbacking? Why single mine out?
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:40 AM   #162
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Point noted, but irrelevant. There are good reasons why police behaviour is governed by legislatures and courts, not by the police themselves.
I don't think any of the Law Enforcement people here suggest that police should self-regulate in these matters. Guidelines are needed, and they are not above the law either.

But when I compare the responses of those condemning the police action to those from the people with Law Enforcement experience, I sense that the condemners are lacking experience in these matters. And that experience would likely change their views. It is relevant. It reminds me of when people outside my field of expertise make some wild statement" why don't they just.....", and my knowledge helps me to KNOW that "just" doing that is not feasible. Those people lack knowledge/experience - everything seems easy to them, since they do not understand the restrictions (basic physics sometimes).

For reference, I've had two times where police acted like jerks; a few times where they did their job, but they certainly could have been nicer about it; and the rest of the time they were helpful and professional, sensitive even.

I'll leave it at this:

Do Police sometimes overstep their bounds? I am certain they do, and it needs to be dealt with severely.

Do those videos indicate police abuse? Questionable, IMO. But it is unquestionable that the citizen created a problem with their attitude, actions, and by not following orders. Just no sympathy from me (only for the cops that have to deal with this). And, if those are the "worst" that the condemners have to offer, I think the situation is better than I would expect, given human nature and people being put in a position of power.

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Old 06-18-2009, 08:43 AM   #163
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I would argue that, in a democracy, the citizens' judgment of police behaviour is ultimately more relevant than the judgment of fellow officers.


That's not to say that we should subject all incidents to popular review, rather, I'm just saying that the citizens' acceptance of the police departments use of force guidelines is the root of its legitimacy.


(edit: again, i mean in a democracy)
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:07 AM   #164
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....
Forget the taser, just use a gun on the nasty old lady and be done with her.
Something like that happened in Oakland BART station on New Year's Day and they won't be done with the case for a long long time. Here a local barkeep suggests a way to help address budget problems. (FWIW, I have no opinion on whether excessive force was used Texas).
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #165
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I would argue that, in a democracy, the citizens' judgment of police behaviour is ultimately more relevant than the judgment of fellow officers.
I agree. And it was not the judgment from the LEOs in this thread that spoke the loudest to me, it was their explanation and reasoning and insight that they shared.

If they had just said "IMO, the cop did the right thing", with no explanation, it would not carry any more weight than a random citizen saying the opposite.

Even if I never saw the video or knew anything about the situation, based on the comments I read here, I would tend to side with the LEOs - they provided reasons, rather than just condemnation or support. I apply that to anything I read, and it's served me well. You are certainly free to express your opinion on the matter, but don't expect to sway anyone w/o some reasoning behind it.

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Old 06-18-2009, 12:04 PM   #166
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No one here is going to be swayed one way or another. We're all too old.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:09 PM   #167
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No one here is going to be swayed one way or another. We're all too old.
I think that is completely correct. At least, I know that I am a lot more set in my ways than I was forty years ago.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #168
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I would have preferred the officer take off his badge, put down his weapons and make it a fair fight.

Bare knuckles, Marcus of Queensberry rules, but require a tap out.

Would have been more palatable.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:32 PM   #169
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No one here is going to be swayed one way or another. We're all too old.
Perhaps. And perhaps we do get more set in our ways as we age, but that could be attributed to a bigger database of experience. I know that I will change my opinion when presented with reasonable evidence - in fact I welcome it, I call it "learning". The day I stop learning is what I would call the day I die, even if my body is still semi-functional.

But I worded it poorly - I really don't think this thread is about swaying anyone's opinion (actually, I'm not sure *what* this thread is about - but I've learned a thing or two, so it is all good), but....

when Jambo referred to others as "sad" because they saw it differently from him, that's where I have to say I will fall back on reasoned information, rather than just the emotional "OMG, he tazered a Grandma!" reaction. But people see things differently, it's what makes the world go around, and it makes markets (time for a financial reference, no?).

Take care -ERD50
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:54 PM   #170
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No one here is going to be swayed one way or another. We're all too old.
Have to agree with this. I expressed my lack of opinion almost three hours ago, and haven't developed one yet.
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:43 PM   #171
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This thread has become repetitive and circular and has, in the judgment of the moderation team, run its course.
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