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72yr old grandma gets tazered
Old 06-11-2009, 09:00 AM   #1
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72yr old grandma gets tazered

What is with these cops? dont they go through some kind of training to subdue some one before resorting to what can be a deadly weapon?
This guy should be ashamed of himself.

Not sure why the sound isnt working on my pc.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:04 AM   #2
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Trust me -- this is ALL over the news here and we can't get away from it. The taxpayers are probably going to get screwed (again) on this one.

I don't understand why a big cop would need to tase a 72-year-old woman who wasn't armed in order to subdue her for arrest. But having said that, two things here:

1. I have no sympathy for her. None at all. If she wasn't being a pain in the patooty and just signed the damn ticket (NOT an admission of guilt but only a promise to appear and/or pay the fine in lieu of appearance), this doesn't happen. She stupidly resisted arrest.

2. If this were a 22-year-old man instead of a 72-year-old woman, would we have the same reaction to this?

The cop probably had bad judgment here, but she brought it on herself by being belligerent, refusing to sign the ticket and resisting arrest, and I refuse to give her a free pass because she's an "old lady."
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:26 AM   #3
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I've instructed police departments in weapons proficiency. And as part of the training I have gotten to ride along on night patrols. Back in 1990 or so I was doing patrols of Long Beach at night and the abuse that the officers had to take from garbage like that old woman was beyond anything a person should have to take.

She surely didn't sustain any injury to her lying filthy mouth and so what's the beef. She is trash.

And yes, the officer will eventually be forced to quit and she will win some major lawsuit.

Arrrgh, no justice in this country.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:37 AM   #4
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Good for the cop. She is old enough to know better.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:38 AM   #5
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I've had and still have friends who are police at county and state levels, as well as military police. Every time they walk up to a vehicle, they have to assume the occupant could be armed, visibly or not.
Add some belligerence and disrespect and you have a volatile situation. Watch her body language very closely as well as her proximity to the deputy.
It is a shame on her that her actions triggered his training on how to deal with agressive persons.
No sympathy from cold-hearted Freebird.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I don't understand why a big cop would need to tase a 72-year-old woman who wasn't armed in order to subdue her for arrest. But having said that, two things here:

1. I have no sympathy for her. None at all. If she wasn't being a pain in the patooty and just signed the damn ticket (NOT an admission of guilt but only a promise to appear and/or pay the fine in lieu of appearance), this doesn't happen. She stupidly resisted arrest.
One aspect is that she was running into traffic trying to get back into her truck.
What would the cop been blamed for if she got past him and then hit by a car.

Taze a bro at 27 taze a g'ma at 72.

I can't think of why he tazed her instead of restraining her except he thought there would be less of a chance for harm.
I might have used pepper spray then cuffed her but what do I know.
Let's not forget young dumb people usually grow up to be dumb old people so let's not project any nobility upon this woman just because of her age.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:46 AM   #7
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Taken together with videos of officers and/or people getting hit by passing cars on the highway, and the way she was oblivious to the traffic, he had two options: wrestle her or taze her. Wrestling would have worked better from a PR standpoint.

His biggest mistake was saying "If you don't step back you're going to be tazed." because he then felt he had to follow through.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:51 AM   #8
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His biggest mistake was saying "If you don't step back you're going to be tazed." because he then felt he had to follow through.
I think it demonstrates that he gave her fair warning to comply before using the taser. Had he not given that warning, I would think the use of the taser would be seen as even more unjustified.

And I still say there would be a lot less outrage had this been a young male instead of a granny, even if he behaved identically.

Plus, she didn't even say "don't tase me, bro".

We drive that stretch of Route 71 frequently, and it's a "blood alley" where a LOT of fatal accidents have occurred. There's little tolerance for speeding there, especially through the construction zones (they're doing a lot of work in that stretch of highway to try to make it safer).
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:01 AM   #9
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I think if he had grabbed her arm, twisted her wrist and put cuffs on her, she would have gone home broke her own wrist, sued for excessive force.

In a much less stressful moment, she says that she did not do anything that was alleged.

Reveals a lot about her character and probably save this policeman from the unemployment line.

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Taken together with videos of officers and/or people getting hit by passing cars on the highway, and the way she was oblivious to the traffic, he had two options: wrestle her or taze her. Wrestling would have worked better from a PR standpoint.

His biggest mistake was saying "If you don't step back you're going to be tazed." because he then felt he had to follow through.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:03 AM   #10
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I don't see why there's a "big story" here. She resisted arrest and was delt with properly. End of story...right?
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:07 AM   #11
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My big question is why does a police department or court system release film like that to the public. Isn't that supposed to be evidence in court?
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:10 AM   #12
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The cop could have taken this attitude
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:19 AM   #13
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Restisting arrest, assault on an officer. Aggressive non-compliant behavior. She gets tazed. She got her sweet sweet just desserts. And she is legally required to utter "don't taze me bro" at least once prior to getting tazed, or she has no legal recourse for recovery*.

The officer waited seven minutes before ultimately tazing her. Seems reasonable to taze her in light of her actions. The cop will probably undergo a little investigation, nothing will happen to him. The lady will undoubtedly file a claim asserting violation of her civil rights, and get a tiny settlement from the county. Case closed.


* I may have created a legal fiction here.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:23 AM   #14
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The officer waited seven minutes before ultimately tazing her. Seems reasonable to taze her in light of her actions. The cop will probably undergo a little investigation, nothing will happen to him. The lady will undoubtedly file a claim asserting violation of her civil rights, and get a tiny settlement from the county. Case closed.
Living in the media market where this occurred, it's interesting to watch how local public perception has changed. At first there was outrage about a cop using the taser on a grandma, and she (more or less) held a press conference afterward where she was still a bit defiant and angry.

But as time went on and more details (and video) emerged, the court of public opinion has turned more and more against her, to the point where most people seem to think she got what she deserved for her refusal to cooperate and resisting arrest.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:28 AM   #15
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Taken together with videos of officers and/or people getting hit by passing cars on the highway, and the way she was oblivious to the traffic, he had two options: wrestle her or taze her.
DING! DING! DING!

Exactly. Lots of cops, wrecker drivers, and general citizens get severely injured or killed when they get caught in between cars on the freeway. When I was learning the job, and when I was teaching others, "get out from between the cars" was one of my most repeated instructions. Where I worked we had nearly 300 miles of freeway and lots of my co-workers have wound up permanently disabled or dead working the freeways in just this kind of situation.
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Wrestling would have worked better from a PR standpoint.
I'm from the old school, from the pre-taser days, and the days when only supervisors had tasers and they were only used on the ultra combative mentally ill. Back then, when somebody said "F*** you, I ain't going to jail" it meant the fight was on.

Now, right up until my second month on the street I was kind and respectful to the occasional grandmother type who didn't want to cooperate. Lot's of "please cooperate ma'am" and pretty gentle laying on of hands. I was criticized repeatedly by my trainer for not taking appropriate action in those situations. Then, one night, somebody's drunk pissed-off grandma decided to try and go kick some younger bimbo's butt because she thought she had made moves on grandpa.

The top of this gal's head barely came up to the height of the badge on my shirt. Didn't look like she could hurt a flea and to look at her you could imagine her baking you some cookies. She was standing in front of me weeping about the whole situation when the anger suddenly kicked in.

As she took off running in the bimbo's direction while screaming "I'll kill you b****!" I tried my usual "I don't want to hurt this old lady" methods. The next thing I knew I had an ice pick sticking out of my back about where my kidney was. No more Mr. Nice guy. I cleaned granny's clock for her and put my knee on her neck while I handcuffed her. My trainer graded me that night in "use of force and control methods" at the top of the scale.

That was not the last little old lady that tried to do me in.

So, yes, wrestling her could be a better PR move, one that I would personally be more comfortable with. But if that had been me there that day, about the second time that granny bowed up on me I would have snatched her left hand and tried to bend it around her back and up to her right ear while pushing her face in the trunk. So, I guess the question is: which is better to see, granny get zapped with no permanent injury, or granny get her butt kicked and go to the ER with some bumps on her noggin?
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:32 AM   #16
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Bravo Leo!
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:35 AM   #17
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FUEGO, just visit any Amtrak station area and you see real examples of those videos. Happens all the time.

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Restisting arrest, assault on an officer. Aggressive non-compliant behavior. She gets tazed. She got her sweet sweet just desserts. And she is legally required to utter "don't taze me bro" at least once prior to getting tazed, or she has no legal recourse for recovery*.

The officer waited seven minutes before ultimately tazing her. Seems reasonable to taze her in light of her actions. The cop will probably undergo a little investigation, nothing will happen to him. The lady will undoubtedly file a claim asserting violation of her civil rights, and get a tiny settlement from the county. Case closed.


* I may have created a legal fiction here.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:31 AM   #18
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Taken together with videos of officers and/or people getting hit by passing cars on the highway, and the way she was oblivious to the traffic, he had two options: wrestle her or taze her. Wrestling would have worked better from a PR standpoint.

His biggest mistake was saying "If you don't step back you're going to be tazed." because he then felt he had to follow through.

I find that in dealing with the belligerent, intoxicated or psychotic patients setting limits and following through (just like with your 4yr old) is the best approach.

I agree with those finding in favour of the cop. They were both in a potentially dangerous situation, she was not cooperating and he would be damned in the court of public opinion if he used physical methods or the taser. As one who has to frequently clean up after the fact I would much rather be pulling taser darts out of someone then sewing them up and putting splints on.

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Old 06-11-2009, 11:44 AM   #19
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No innocent old granny involved in this situation. Regardless of her age, she needed to comply with what she was being told. Her behaviour was out of line and she suffered from the consequences of her actions.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:57 AM   #20
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Dumb lady........she got what she deserved. Of course, she will sue. I think the dash cam from the police will show the officer acted in the correct fashion.

I always cooperate with law enforcement in my dealings with them. They have guns, tasers, pepper spray, shotguns, and more training than me........
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