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Old 09-10-2007, 02:54 PM   #41
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Guess I will probably never really understand.
I agree with your statement. My parents have never flown a US flag - never saw one in our house unless on someone's return address label - and both grandfathers were in the military during WWII. My BF (non-military) flies the US flag (actually I asked him to get a new one to replace the scruffy one) and I find it respectful (19 years and counting in the USN/USNR) - but, having been a recruiter and experienced first hand the range of patriotic emotions...no stones shall be cast here on your choices. Those of us who feel respected, comforted, etc by the symbol of our flag do not understand your position either
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:29 PM   #42
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Unfortunately, I view most people that display the flag with as much skepticism with those that feel a need to preach their religion.

If waving/displaying a flag makes you a patriot, and going to church(or quoting the bible) makes you a good Christian, then standing in a driveway makes you a car.

I wonder how many of those "patriots" even bother to vote in elections.
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:08 PM   #43
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Unfortunately, I view most people that display the flag with as much skepticism with those that feel a need to preach their religion.

If waving/displaying a flag makes you a patriot, and going to church(or quoting the bible) makes you a good Christian, then standing in a driveway makes you a car.

I wonder how many of those "patriots" even bother to vote in elections.
Symbols without deeds is the clanging of an empty gong, it's true.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:01 PM   #44
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Good replies, everyone, and glad to see this didn't degenerate.

The honoring veterans angle, I can understand that, even if it is not my style. My personal plan is to some day visit the cemeteries in Normandy and elsewhere where my ancestors were laid to rest and thank them personally for their service. A private affair.

I can also say that while I consider Japan to also be a great country, if my neighbors ever started displaying the flag on a daily basis I would probably get creeped out and start considering exit strategies. I guess, like Brewster, my distrust of symbols would outweigh the good feelings or intentions behind them. But I can see that the intentions are, mostly, good.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:11 PM   #45
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Oh and by the way the Islamic animals that attacked us on 9/11 ...
Animals don't do things like that. That was a human thing.

I like animals.

Mike D.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:29 PM   #46
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If waving/displaying a flag makes you a patriot, and going to church(or quoting the bible) makes you a good Christian, then standing in a driveway makes you a car.


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Symbols without deeds is the clanging of an empty gong, it's true.
Nothing worse than an empty bong...
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:50 PM   #47
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Lol!
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:40 AM   #48
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I've been watching the full replay of 9/11/01 on msnbc this morning. I was working out of town the day it happened. Six years later, still shocking to watch.
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:49 AM   #49
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Oh and by the way the Islamic animals that attacked us on 9/11 and on other dates are doing it not to take away american freedoms, its all about foreign policy, american foreign policy. Just like back when the old soviet union went into afgahnistan and bin laden was there fighting with the mujahadin, it was soviet foreign policy, they were fighting against.
OBL supports and encourages the use of terror against civilians to further the cause of radical Islam. Prescribing any humanitarian meaning to his actions is, well, incredulous...

Has Al-Qaeda helped the Palestineans form a nation/economy? Do they support universal suffrage and/or democratically-elected governments? Do they condemn the practice and teaching of radical Islam? Would they use oil revenues to build a diverse economy and educated workforce...

For that matter, do any of the region's governments?
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:44 AM   #50
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Unfortunately, I view most people that display the flag with as much skepticism with those that feel a need to preach their religion.

If waving/displaying a flag makes you a patriot, and going to church(or quoting the bible) makes you a good Christian, then standing in a driveway makes you a car.

I wonder how many of those "patriots" even bother to vote in elections.
1)I display a flag everyday, I even have a light so I can display it at night.

2)I have gone to church forever, and the kids come along......

3)I have voted in every election since 1984.........

4)I AM NOT A CAR!

5)BTW,I'm not picking on farmers, my wife grew up on a farm, and my grandparents both were farmers........
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:32 PM   #51
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1)I display a flag everyday, I even have a light so I can display it at night.

2)I have gone to church forever, and the kids come along......

3)I have voted in every election since 1984.........

4)I AM NOT A CAR!

5)BTW,I'm not picking on farmers, my wife grew up on a farm, and my grandparents both were farmers........
Pretty much the same here! With only a couple of very minor exceptions:

1) Our flag comes in at night...no light on it....YET!

2) I don't have kiddos, but I've done the church thing since one week after my birth. (I was born the previous Sunday afternoon...so I missed church that day )

3) For me, voted every election since 1975....locals, state, nationals, school boards, church board, referendums, union.....EVERY election! (Absentee ballot a couple of times, due to vacation plans)

4) Me either! (Though if I sat in a tree, I think I could justifiably be called a 'nut'

5) Not a farmer, but I have worked on my friend's farm during harvests.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:03 PM   #52
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Flag Waving

I have been ashamed of what our country is doing in Iraq since Bush started this damn mess. "Support the Troops," "Homeland Security," "9/11, 9/11,9/11,..." terrorists, islamofacists, the enemy, WMDs, "Mission Accomplished," patriots, traitors, it all makes me sick.

I will display the flag again when I can once again be proud of what we are doing as a nation. I am a Vet, my uncle was a downed pilot, POW during WWII, but I am ashamed for the behavior of our county. Its president, its congress, its press, its courts, and its voters have all behaved shamefully.
Whatever our founding fathers had in mind, this is not it.
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:29 PM   #53
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I'm not a vet and my uncle survived Pearl Harbor rather than a POW but otherwise, Ditto, Elderdude.
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:25 PM   #54
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I have been ashamed of what our country is doing in Iraq since Bush started this damn mess. "Support the Troops," "Homeland Security," "9/11, 9/11,9/11,..." terrorists, islamofacists, the enemy, WMDs, "Mission Accomplished," patriots, traitors, it all makes me sick.

I will display the flag again when I can once again be proud of what we are doing as a nation. I am a Vet, my uncle was a downed pilot, POW during WWII, but I am ashamed for the behavior of our county. Its president, its congress, its press, its courts, and its voters have all behaved shamefully.
Whatever our founding fathers had in mind, this is not it.
Sorry you feel that way........ You think the response by the govt to 9/11 was fake? I agree that a LOT of bad decisions have been made, but you are saying we did a lot of bad things RIGHT after 9/11? I don't understand that......:confused:
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:27 PM   #55
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I was doing some research for a hobby project that I'm working on, and came across a quote that I know I've heard before but it had slipped into the deep abyss of my demented mind.

Quote:
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." - Mark Twain -
And having said that, I do tend to agree pretty much with Elderdude:
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I have been ashamed of what our country is doing in Iraq since Bush started this damn mess.........I am ashamed for the behavior of our country. Its president, its congress, its press, its courts, and its voters have all behaved shamefully.

Whatever our founding fathers had in mind, this is not it.
I'll cut the voters of our land a little slack though, because unfortunately, they've (we've)made their (our) choices after listening to "....Its president, its congress, its press, its courts..." I think the voters have pretty much had the deck unscrupulously stacked against them by the afore mentioned band of idiots!!!

It sure would be a wonderful thing to be able to get this great country of ours back to what our founders did have in mind!!!
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:36 PM   #56
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I agree with you, Goonie but have a slight quibble about the voters. I pay attention to left-wing news sources and was shocked by PNAC and didn't vote as the Prez, congress, courts or major media would lead one.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:24 AM   #57
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I pay attention to left-wing news sources and was shocked by and didn't vote as the Prez, congress, courts or major media would lead one.
Me either.....I don't tend to follow the masses. I'm a fairly independent thinker, and follow my own views and opinions FAR more than that of IDIOTS politicians and/or media. In fact I apply my own twisted version of the "Miranda Rights" to both politicians and the media....but ESPECIALLY politicians. I hold that "anything they say can and will be used against them in a court of law a voting booth!

Some of our moronic revered local politicians have their heads stuck in their @$$es don't quite have a clear concept of reality. During the last election I went to vote, not necessarily FOR candidates, but rather AGAINST certain boneheads individuals.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:10 AM   #58
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It sure would be a wonderful thing to be able to get this great country of ours back to what our founders did have in mind!!!
What our Founders had in mind was that States would be run by State govt not FEDERAL control, we are run exactly the opposite way for many reasons, some of which Franklin, Hancock, and others could not have imagined in 1776..........
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:49 PM   #59
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There has been a lot of interesting discussion on this topic, and fortunately it hasn't got as nasty as I thought it would when I first started reading. What I get out of this is that if it makes you feel good to fly the flag, then do so. If not, then don't. I think people on both sides of this issue are entitled to their opinion. For this reason, however, I must take exception to the original post as stated:

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On Tuesday, September 11th, 2007, an American flag should be displayed outside every home, apartment, office, and store in the United States. Every individual should m ake it their duty to display an American flag on this anniversary of our country's worst tragedy.
To this I say a resounding baloney!!!

Fly it if you wish, don't if you don't. But stop passing out duties and obligations please.

I don't fly flags, Canadian or American (I am a dual citizen). Although this is not the case for me, it is against some people's religious principles. So making it a duty would actually violate the bill of rights, as well as freedom of expression (it has to be part of that freedom NOT to express). I remember back in 1969 during an anti-Vietnam march when a group of protesters lowered the US flag and raised a Viet Cong flag. A group of businessmen jumped in and a fistfight ensued. The guy I was with looked at me and said in an ironic tone "look at that--fighting over symbols." Frankly, I was not sympathetic to either group involved in the scuffle. Those who lowered the US flag did a disservice to the message the rest of us were trying to put across, and if the businessmen thought they were "defending the honour" of old glory, then they were even sillier. I can understand fighting for safety, for food, for freedom, but not for an abstraction. That's just me.

I respect any body's right to fly a flag. Personally, I agree with the poster who stated that nationalism is not necessarily a positive force and revving it up is not necessarily good for the world at large. I understand being proud to be American, but my mother always taught me not to brag. Few of us deserve any credit for being American anyway--for most of us it just happened.

As for flying it to support veterans, I can understand that sentiment. But to imply that all veterans who fought did so to "preserve our freedom" is pretty naive (although certainly many did). More often in recent history troops are used just to be "thugs for capitalism" as General Smedley Butler put it. I don't consider Vietnam or Iraq to be defenses of freedom. I consider them to be national shames. What is shameful, however, is the policy, not the soldiers who did their country's bidding. The blame lies with all of us, for allowing our government to lie to us and prosecute such a destructive foreign policy.

So, bottom line, like I said. Fly the flag with pride if that's what turns your crank. But allow those of us who do not wish to our freedom of expression as well.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:03 PM   #60
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How symbolic is this.
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