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Old 07-12-2015, 08:36 PM   #21
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Correct.

On the baseball question, what is it called when the pitcher throws wild and the hitter "steals" 1st base while the catcher is trying to retrieve the ball? (I think that is a legal way to get to to 1st without hitting the ball)
That's the dropped third strike
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:42 PM   #22
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That's the dropped third strike
Thanks. I guess I always thought the pitch had to be in the strike zone to be called a strike and a wild uncatchable pitch would be something different. It's all just words I guess.
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:45 PM   #23
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23 LEGAL WAYS T GET TO FIRST BASE (including hitting a single) + as a bonus stealing first base from second base (which may be included in Texas Proud's link)

Can you steal first base?

ESPN The Magazine
Eric Enders, researcher, Baseball Hall of Fame: No. Why? Rules. What rules? Baseball's rules. Oh, them. There are 23 legal ways to get to first. Do tell. Walk, intentional walk, hit by pitch, dropped third strike, failure to deliver pitch within 20 seconds, catcher interference, fielder interference, spectator interference, fan obstruction ... isn't that ... fair ball hits umpire, fair ball hits runner, fielder obstructs runner, pinch-runner, fielder's choice, force out at another base ... aren't those ... preceding runner put-out allows batter to reach first, sac bunt fails to advance runner, sac fly dropped, runner called out on appeal ... wait, which ... error, four illegal pitches, and if a game is suspended with a runner on first and that player is traded prior to the makeup, another player can take his place. That's only 22. Oh, right. Single. Borrring. John Thorn, co-editor, Total Baseball: Two players stole first, Germany Schaefer in 1907 and Fred Tenney around 1900, but they did it from second. The idea was to induce a throw so the runner on third could score. Tricky. I suppose, but it didn't work. And now it's illegal. Pity....
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:56 PM   #24
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Thanks. I guess I always thought the pitch had to be in the strike zone to be called a strike and a wild uncatchable pitch would be something different. It's all just words I guess.
If the batter swings and misses a pitch that is ten feet over his head, then it is still referred to as "dropped third strike", although the implication is a little off. It would be scored as a strikeout and a wild pitch (blaming the pitcher). If the catcher should have caught it with reasonable effort, it would be scored as a strikeout and a passed ball. I don't think in either case it is scored as an "error". All semantics I guess.
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Correct.

On the baseball question, what is it called when the pitcher throws wild and the hitter "steals" 1st base while the catcher is trying to retrieve the ball? (I think that is a legal way to get to to 1st without hitting the ball)
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Originally Posted by 48Fire View Post
That's the dropped third strike
That's a wild pitch, (assuming the ball as thrown is uncatchable and unstoppable by a catcher). In this case the catcher does not get an error (E-2). It's not considered a dropped third strike--even if the batter swings and misses. Let's say the ball flies 3 feet over the batter's head. He swings and misses. The catcher can't leap fast enough to get to catch the ball. It's considered a wild pitch--assuming the situation on the bases change because of that pitch.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:16 PM   #26
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It's not considered a dropped third strike--even if the batter swings and misses.
I think it is.... But I only got one answer right, so what do I know? I think that a wild pitch or passed ball are the two ways that a dropped third strike is classified, depending on whose fault the "drop" was.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:29 PM   #27
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I think it is.... But I only got one answer right, so what do I know? I think that a wild pitch or passed ball are the two ways that a dropped third strike is classified, depending on whose fault the "drop" was.
Ah, let's wait around. Texas Proud will research this all night until he
finds the answer.
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:10 PM   #28
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2,4,5,6,7,8,9,11. Oh well. Back to the library.

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Old 07-13-2015, 12:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by redduck View Post
Ah, let's wait around. Texas Proud will research this all night until he
finds the answer.

Just have to look for the MLB rules....

Just as an FYI, it is not considered an error, so it would not be scored E2...


10.13 WILD PITCHES AND PASSED BALLS
A wild pitch is defined in Rule 2.00 (Wild Pitch). A passed ball is a statistic charged against a catcher whose action has caused a runner or runners to advance, as set forth in this Rule 10.13.


(a) The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball is so high, so wide or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a wild pitch.

(b) The official scorer shall charge a catcher with a passed ball when the catcher fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball that should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a passed ball.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 48Fire View Post
I think it is.... But I only got one answer right, so what do I know? I think that a wild pitch or passed ball are the two ways that a dropped third strike is classified, depending on whose fault the "drop" was.
Lucky guess, 48Fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Just have to look for the MLB rules....

Just as an FYI, it is not considered an error, so it would not be scored E2...


10.13 WILD PITCHES AND PASSED BALLS ...

(b) The official scorer shall charge a catcher with a passed ball when the catcher fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball that should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a passed ball.
So, a dropped third strike that allows the batter to reach first base safely is considered the same as a passed ball. And, the catcher is not charged with an error but is simply charged with a passed ball? Any other player who drops a ball that should have been caught, letting a runner reach base, gets charged with an error. No wonder baseball has lost out to football as the National Past-Time.

Anyhow, thanks Texas Proud. Feel free to go back to solving Greece's financial crisis. Maybe the answers are in the MLB rule book.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:52 AM   #31
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A dropped 3rd strike is scored as a strikeout, then either a wild pitch or passed ball depending on whether the scorer judges the catcher should have been able to field the pitch. Normally for this type of quiz these are grouped together as "dropped third strike".


Another way for a runner to reach first base is fielder interference. If a fielder interferes with the batter/runner trying to reach first, the umpire can award him first base.


I got 1, 4, 6, 8 , 9, and 10 (kind of, I missed pinch runner but got 6 with fielder interference). And how about Mendenhall Glacier for #2? I suppose it isn't constantly moving backwards as glaciers probably don't retreat in winter? On a yearly basis they are constantly retreating though. Depends on the wording, but I'll also say that a waterfall may be reducing in size, but that's not "moving backward".
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:25 AM   #32
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I kinda like baseball, but never got that deep in these sorts of rules. So a Q:

I'm confused by this 'when the third strike is a wild pitch' terminology. A batter would not normally swing at a 'wild pitch', and a 'wild pitch' would not be in the strike zone, right?

Are we saying the batter did swing at a wild pitch in this case?

-ERD50
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:07 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I kinda like baseball, but never got that deep in these sorts of rules. So a Q:

I'm confused by this 'when the third strike is a wild pitch' terminology. A batter would not normally swing at a 'wild pitch', and a 'wild pitch' would not be in the strike zone, right?

Are we saying the batter did swing at a wild pitch in this case?

-ERD50
Yes. A common occurrence would be a sharp curve that the batter bit at, and the ball dropped into the dirt. (Curve balls actually drop up to down more than they break side to side, by design.) Usually a ball in the dirt is scored a wild pitch even though a good catcher can usually snag them. Scorers won't penalize a catcher for failing to make an non-routine play.

I've even heard of a couple cases where a batter swung at a very wild strike 2 pitch figuring it would get by the pitcher and they can get first base. A wild swing can make it even tougher on the catcher. I can't name such an event, and it may never have happened in the majors. I found a discussion about this here: Baseball batter intentionally swinging at a wild pitch third strike? - Straight Dope Message Board
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:16 AM   #34
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Are we saying the batter did swing at a wild pitch in this case?
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Yes. ....
Thanks, it was bugging me! -ERD50
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:38 PM   #35
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Lucky guess, 48Fire.



So, a dropped third strike that allows the batter to reach first base safely is considered the same as a passed ball. And, the catcher is not charged with an error but is simply charged with a passed ball? Any other player who drops a ball that should have been caught, letting a runner reach base, gets charged with an error. No wonder baseball has lost out to football as the National Past-Time.

Anyhow, thanks Texas Proud. Feel free to go back to solving Greece's financial crisis. Maybe the answers are in the MLB rule book.

Reading about this.... the passed ball is a separate statistic.... you do not give the catcher a passed ball AND an error for the guy getting to first... the same goes for a wild pitch... it is scored that way without an error...
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:44 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I kinda like baseball, but never got that deep in these sorts of rules. So a Q:

I'm confused by this 'when the third strike is a wild pitch' terminology. A batter would not normally swing at a 'wild pitch', and a 'wild pitch' would not be in the strike zone, right?

Are we saying the batter did swing at a wild pitch in this case?

-ERD50

I saw this in a game on TV....

There was a guy on first.... and there were two strikes... the pitching team called a pitch out thinking the guy was going to steal... the batting team called a hit and run... the catcher jumps up to snag the ball and the batter lunged at it and swung.... catcher missed the ball because he was not expecting a bat to be flying by him...


But, not sure if they called it a wild pitch or a passed ball.... the ball was no where close to the strike zone... it wasn't pretty....
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:56 PM   #37
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If the batter swings and misses a pitch that is ten feet over his head, then it is still referred to as "dropped third strike", although the implication is a little off. It would be scored as a strikeout and a wild pitch (blaming the pitcher). If the catcher should have caught it with reasonable effort, it would be scored as a strikeout and a passed ball. I don't think in either case it is scored as an "error". All semantics I guess.
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Reading about this.... the passed ball is a separate statistic.... you do not give the catcher a passed ball AND an error for the guy getting to first... the same goes for a wild pitch... it is scored that way without an error...
The important lessons I learned here is: not to disagree with a guy who goes by the name 48Fire (I ER'd (?) at 70) and not to disagree with a guy who reads the rule book.
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:13 PM   #38
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We were at a baseball game recently, minor league pro, and the batter swung and missed (maybe a foul tip? Maybe not) on the third strike; catcher dropped the ball, batter was just standing there til ump told him to get to first and started running; catcher found ball and threw it to first, easily beating the batter, who was then out. The catcher apparently could also have tagged the batter before he ran down the baseline. Yes we were confused but not as much as the batter and possibly the catcher who probably should know these rules. But most entertaining for the spectators.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:26 PM   #39
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:27 PM   #40
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We were at a baseball game recently, minor league pro, and the batter swung and missed (maybe a foul tip? Maybe not) on the third strike; catcher dropped the ball, batter was just standing there til ump told him to get to first and started running; catcher found ball and threw it to first, easily beating the batter, who was then out. The catcher apparently could also have tagged the batter before he ran down the baseline. Yes we were confused but not as much as the batter and possibly the catcher who probably should know these rules. But most entertaining for the spectators.
My guess is that it was tipped, and therefore a foul and not a third strike, and the umpire didn't see that. Both batter and catcher treated it as a tip. Did the umpire call out "strike three"? Hearing that, not followed by "you're out" would be the signal needed for the other two as they need to react to how the umpire calls it even if it wasn't right.

The ump should not be telling the batter to run. It's not his job to tell players what to do. Pretty sure he should watch, and if the batter returns to the dugout he can call him out for abandoning the attempt to take first base. You see a similar thing if a runner misses home plate but is not tagged. The ump will not make a safe signal, or any signal. If a defensive player with the ball tags him, he is out. If the runner returns to the dugout without being tagged, the defense can appeal to the ump that he missed home, and would be called out. If they fail to do either before the next pitch, the run counts even though the runner never touched home. It would be very improper for the ump to tell the catcher he still has to tag the runner, or to tell the runner to come back and touch home.
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