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Old 04-09-2011, 03:33 PM   #61
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I think that even as a scientist, one has to leave wiggle room for things not yet understood.

That's why there are variables in math. In astronomy, there are answers and yet probably more theories than known facts. In religion, many do not need proof to have faith.

To say because I can't prove X doesn't exist is not same as saying X exists.
Sometimes saying "I don't know..." is a valid answer.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:08 PM   #62
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For me, the most valuable part of my education was making me acutely aware of how little I really know for sure.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:13 PM   #63
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If we have an open mind to the spirits from the other side affecting our world maybe the problems in our world are being caused by things we stopped doing. Think about it. Ever since about the time of the French Revolution and its 'enlightened rational thought' followed by the industrial revolution the world has experienced a level of killing, destruction and pain not seen previously.

An what has changed? - Veneration of the dead, separation from nature, learning from the wise ones, gifts to the dead, sacrifices to the dead. If a person has an open mind to the idea that the dead can influence our world that person must keep an open mind that we can influence the actions of the dead in our world. That is what has changed; the living stopped paying attention to the dead.

We should bring back what worked in the past and brought us happiness; such as the things below. Can anyone disprove these things were not responsible for the good world prior to our ending of communication with the dead?
- Human sacrifice so the dead will help us with our entreaties
- Virgin sacrifice for good crops and business
- Eating the body parts of our noble enemies such as the heart for courage
- Burying the dead with things that will make their lives better after death
- Burying the dead with servants
- Bringing back oracles for communication with the dead

It is not inconsistent for an open minded person who sees the actions of the dead in our world to keep an open mind to the idea that we can influence the actions of the dead in our world and their happiness in their world.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:38 PM   #64
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Most of my life (especially lately), I've cherished all the comfort that comes my way. It doesn't have to be explained; as long as I feel it....that's good enough for me.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:06 PM   #65
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This thread reminds me we need to order the headstone for my wife's grandmothers grave. Her family is negligent about this - 2 years ago we finally got a marker for her great grandfather, who passed away in 1910.

(interesting story - in 1900 he was a deputy sheriff acting as town marshall when he went to arrest an outlaw who was in town, taking the town barber along as his backup. After the resulting shootout, he was shot through the chest, the barber in the knee, one outlaw was wounded and another chased down by the posse the next day. He lived to 1910, but was in poor health with TB plus the wound).
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Old 04-09-2011, 08:49 PM   #66
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Agreed.

Many of these posts make me feel sad. They show how fragile our "civilized" society really is at its heart.
Many of these posts make me feel sad too. But for very different reasons....



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There is no inconsistency here. Logically, we cannot prove a negative. So we can't say that there isn't something here, and maybe it is just something we do not (or cannot) understand.

I will still say that many of the reports here are easily explained by selective memory. But that doesn't mean all of them are, and it doesn't rule out a more 'magical' cause. Yet, I wonder why so many of us have never experienced these things?

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It's like a belief in god or any "higher power". You may or may not accept the precept, but there is no defined "proof", either way, that can be validated by others.

I like the line from "Angels & Demons" where the question of belief in god is asked. The answer (from the academic?):

"My mind tells me I will never understand God. And my heart tells me I am not meant to."

As too, the stories previously told in this thread. Did they really happen, and represent "proof" of an afterlife?

As for me? I have no idea. If you believe, than it is real, regardless of my thoughts, or opinion. I'm not about to say that these occurrences did or did not occur.

In reality, what all that matters (if you believe) is that you do so...
Well said. I never quite understand why some people who "don't believe" feel it is so important to convince others that "do".....that they shouldn't. *shrug*
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:16 PM   #67
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I never quite understand why some people who "don't believe" feel it is so important to convince others that "do".....that they shouldn't. *shrug*
Doesn't seem to happen as often as the reverse.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:23 PM   #68
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Doesn't seem to happen as often as the reverse.
Was that written using the 'sarcasm' font?
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:33 PM   #69
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No, I said what I think. I understand these are sensitive and personal issues. Probably both my post and the post I quoted should disappear.
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Old 04-09-2011, 11:15 PM   #70
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Most of my life (especially lately), I've cherished all the comfort that comes my way. It doesn't have to be explained; as long as I feel it....that's good enough for me.
You've been experiencing tough times in your life lately. The unexpected comfort doesn't require an explanation.
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Old 04-10-2011, 01:56 PM   #71
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You've been experiencing tough times in your life lately. The unexpected comfort doesn't require an explanation.
Yes...I'm learning some things come naturally....
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:47 PM   #72
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Now and then I dream of dead relatives or dead cats or previous jobs.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:57 PM   #73
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I have never had any experience that would remotely allow me to believe in anything other then it's our nature to die, it's sad for those left missing the person, but that's it. I don't believe in any "higher powers", afterlife, souls, .....nothing. I think that I probably would if there were any evidence of it.....but there isn't so I don't.

I do believe in memories....and hold them dear.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:02 PM   #74
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Now and then I dream of dead relatives or dead cats or previous jobs.
Me, too, except substitute dogs for cats. I dream of my parents an awful lot. My older sister (who is still alive and well) figures in frequently as well. My LH, not so much, but only once in a very great while for whatever reason. And my son (also alive and well) never appears in my dreams. Maybe childhood imprints us more strongly than anything else? Who knows.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:07 PM   #75
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No, I said what I think. I understand these are sensitive and personal issues. Probably both my post and the post I quoted should disappear.
My comment was based on personal experience, as I am sure yours was. I am not sure why either should be deleted.

If you feel they should, that's fine - but I have read a lot worst posts in this forum than either of these, so I am a confused why you feel they should be deleted. With that said, to avoid any further issues, I will bow out of the discussion.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:58 PM   #76
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My comment was based on personal experience, as I am sure yours was. I am not sure why either should be deleted.

If you feel they should, that's fine - but I have read a lot worst posts in this forum than either of these, so I am a confused why you feel they should be deleted. With that said, to avoid any further issues, I will bow out of the discussion.
Well, no one apparently has complained so I'm good with leaving things as they are.
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