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Old 08-15-2015, 12:24 PM   #41
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As most people, I use Windows because I used it for work, then accumulated a lot of programs for it. I curse at MS more than most, but would not want to move to Apple now. The way Apple controls everything just p*ssed me off. Just trying to load some MP3 files into an iPod or iPhone requires the user to jump through hoops with their iTune store crap. What a scam! With my no-name MP3 player, I simply hook it up to a USB port on my PC and start moving files no differently than into a flash memory stick. Same with my wife's Android tablet.

I should start spending more time with Linux and particularly Android devices if MS keeps screwing up. No point in going from one flavor of Kool Aid to another.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:03 PM   #42
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Does anyone know if Macs have issues when updating the OS? I've never done it nor found any particular reason to do so.
With a few minor exceptions, no.

I bought my first one, a Macintosh Plus, in 1987 and have been using them continuously since then. No idea how many hunks of hardware I've gone through, but a lot. I religiously updated the OS every time a new one came out, and I can only remember a few isolated instances of problems, all of them minor, and I don't recall ever losing any data.

During my w*rking life, I had to be a power user of both Windows and Unix systems, so I understand the frustration so many feel. The Mac OS nowadays is based on Unix, which is one of the things that makes it so powerful and stable.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:23 PM   #43
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Years ago, I read an article where an MS executive lamented about the difference between Windows and Apple OS. A piece of software like a device driver can wreak havoc with the OS. Windows has been more open where 3rd parties can write low-level software to insert into the kernel, while Mac OS is closely controlled by Apple. That reduces the potential problem that Apple would face.

I wrote device drivers for MS-DOS decades ago, and only wrote some programs for Windows. I have no experience with Mac OS to know if what the MS executive said was correct or not.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:52 PM   #44
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Years ago, I read an article where an MS executive lamented about the difference between Windows and Apple OS. A piece of software like a device driver can wreak havoc with the OS. Windows has been more open where 3rd parties can write low-level software to insert into the kernel, while Mac OS is closely controlled by Apple. That reduces the potential problem that Apple would face.

I wrote device drivers for MS-DOS decades ago, and only wrote some programs for Windows. I have no experience with Mac OS to know if what the MS executive said was correct or not.
Platform integrity and stability were never critical requirements for MS. When IBM offered OS/2, a much more stable and secure PC operating system, MS called it "useless overhead" because it required more system resources. Allowing open access to the core by third parties has always been the greatest flaw IMHO.
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Old 08-15-2015, 02:21 PM   #45
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Programmers like to be able to poke their filthy grubby fingers into the OS internals, hence there's more software for Windows vs. Mac OS. But there should have been mechanisms to protect the OS and to allow the user to recover once he discovers that security has been breached. Linux is fully open-sourced software. Does it have the same problem as Windows?

I recall writing a device driver to have my own floppy format for MS-DOS. Remember the days of 5" floppies? The standard floppy is 360K for double-sided 40-track 9-sector drive (512B x 9 x 2 x 40 = 360K) , and you need to get the expensive AT-style 80-track high-density drive and floppies to get 1.2M. I happened to be able to buy a surplus 80-track drive which was not high-density, and proceeded to write a device driver for it.

By programming a reduced sector spacing, I could fit 10 sectors on a track, and also eked out non-standard 4 extra tracks. So, my floppies could hold 840K (512B x 10 x 84 x 2). Those were the days of 20MB hard drives, so my super floppies were just great for archiving. My device driver software also did write-caching. Man, talk about performance!

I still have that drive somewhere in the house. And the floppies too!
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Old 08-15-2015, 02:56 PM   #46
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Koolau, I've had a Mac through about 3 or 4 versions of the operating system. I apply the upgrades as they come out as well as doing the minor patches along the way. Never have had a problem and the upgrades have been at no charge. I suspect they go smoothly because I don't go and tweak and change files "under the covers". I let everything update on it's own without interference. I would urge you to update on a regular basis to the most current versions or patches as some of them are security patches/upgrades.

Full disclosure...be sure you back up your machine on a regular basis, Mac or Windows. This is just good practice for all those pictures and critical files.

It's fascinating to me that folks are willing to put up with Windows issues and the associated stress while at the same time calling the Mac users "Apple Fanboys or Kool-Aid Drinkers." Maybe they should try what we already know and become a Fanboy?
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Old 08-15-2015, 03:16 PM   #47
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Whatever happened to to good ol days when before any action that would format a disk, it asks at least 3 times " are you sure " before proceeding ?

FWIW the last time I installed a new os, it was win 95 . Have been buying new low end machines when the last 2 laptops died.
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Old 08-15-2015, 04:34 PM   #48
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I am sorry to hear about your computers, Imoldernu. I can see how easily this could happen when upgrading or reverting back. I think Microsoft has put a lot of resources into upgrading and little for the ones that do not like Win 10 and want to revert back.

Take your computers into a computer repair place and let them recover and fix your computers. You need the data...so just spend the money and get things fixed. I have been that route in the past and it's the best. Water under the bridge.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:51 PM   #49
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Not to digress the OP even further, but...

Macs are great fire and forget computers. They work well and are nice designs. Downsides include price and walled garden. For most people, the walled garden isn't an issue.

I agree that Windows computers are less and less "tinkerable" these days (unless you spend a fair amount of time at it).

If you really want to tinker, go with Linux. Probably the best bet for those concerned with privacy too.

Chrome OS is a good alternative and relatively cheap way of going the fire and forget method (albeit even more walled garden than a Mac). Great family/kitchen/surfing web computers, but generally not power horses.
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:41 PM   #50
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imoldernu,

Sorry about the headache, frustration, and data loss. I did something silly a few years ago on my Mac. The Mac OSX formatting tool allows you to see the entire drive name (not just an abstract identifier), but I STILL killed the wrong partition. Fortunately, I had a fully backup on a separate drive.

All Mac users & potential mac users:

I don't disagree that Mac's can be more foolproof, but feel compelled to proselytize a bit about the importance of backups. Fortunately, Apple has a decent backup system "Time Machine" as part of their OSX operating system. Still, I'm amazed by how many people don't invest in a cheap usb3 backup drive so that Time Machine can do it's thing. Apple Time Capsule is an even slicker WiFi alternative. Just do it, especially laptop "droptop" folks!

Also, make sure to occasionally check that Time Machine is running properly. The time of the last backup is shown by clicking the Time Machine Icon in the top menu bar. It wouldn't hurt to actually enter Time Machine and poke around; give confidence that "stuff is really there".

Even better, in ADDITION to Time Machine, consider "cloning" the boot drive and even the data drive(s) with software such as SuperDuper. This puts a functionally identical copy of your drive onto your backup. So, you can even boot your Mac from the external drive, complete with all your software and any user customization. This is a huge help to you or your designated Geek in case of trouble.

Running Time Machine allows me to "go back in time" by every hour the computer is on, allowing me to easily reverse accidental deletions or look for old versions if I accidentally save the wrong thing over something valuable.

In contrast, I run the backup clones roughly every month, depending how much critical data I add (typically photos). This serves as a 2nd backup and allows access to my computer even if a drive completely fries.

Aside: get a flash (SSD) drive for your Mac, either as-purchased or as a priority upgrade. You won't fully appreciate a modern computer without one. They are much master than the old spinning hard drives and potentially more reliable and robust.

FB
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:11 AM   #51
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Best advice I ever received about backups was: Count the number of your external drives containing up to date backups. Subtract 1. Respond appropriately.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:21 AM   #52
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I had an old computer with disk was getting errors so I bought a new disk, downloaded Linux and dd to my usb and booted from it to copy old disk to new disk. Should have been able to copy, take out old disk swap with new disk and power up. BUT when I booted with new disk, it took first drive designation, and left old one with 2nd disk. I did copy of every sector from blank I formatted disk over old disk. Good thing I had backups of important files and a disk to reinstall but that is my oops story.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:57 AM   #53
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There are HD imaging and cloning programs (Windows too) that are free .

In fact, one I know of is HDD Raw copy. HDD Raw Copy Tool is a utility for low-level, sector-by-sector hard disk duplication.

When working on disk recovery, a suggestion is to make a raw copy of the disk, the recover from the copy. Otherwise, poke here, prod there, run a utility there on the disk, and before you know, nothing is recoverable.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:32 PM   #54
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Note to self: Do not update to win10....
Toooo late. Just updated for free a few nights ago. Posting here with Windows 10.

Now I'm 'scart' aand looking over my shoulder!

heh heh heh - Seems a tad slower than my old 7 but so far so good.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:43 PM   #55
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I'll only upgrade when I have to. Win 7 does everything I need.
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Old 08-16-2015, 01:05 PM   #56
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Best advice I ever received about backups was: Count the number of your external drives containing up to date backups. Subtract 1. Respond appropriately.
Good one!
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Old 08-16-2015, 03:35 PM   #57
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Update...
Still have one computer running windows 7.

The other two are now disconnected and awaitng guru son, though I am not opimistic. So far, there are 515 million hits on windows problems. In many hours of looking every suggestion (solution) weems to be refuted by following posts.

The single seemingly optimistic resution was in a windows forum, where a clean install would be available with the computer code. Except... my code(s) were from the refurbisher, who no longer supports this.

Almost every "solution" requires a back up restore disk or partition...neither of which I have.

I can buy a new operating system, but the cost is more than what I paid for my refurbished computers. I won't spring for a Mac, as with my current run of luck and finicky fingers, I'd probably drop it.

As far as local paid gurus... hmmm... have talked with some of them, and I don't think they know as much as I do.

Am pretty sure that the linux prgram in the UBCD disk could fix the boot section, but I'll have to learn farsi, newspeak, or espranto to interpret the terms.

Have resurrected an XP/linux dual boot laptop and an old emachine with Vista. I'd get a mobile phone or use my tablet, but vision and peripheral neuropathy make small screens a no-no.

If DS can't fix the two bricked machines, I'll just buy two refurbs for about $130.

I am still pretty ticked that during this fiasco, my 2T hard drive can't be seen, except in device manager... (no letter ID or access) It still works, and files show up on my Sony media Player. Seems no one has a clue as to how to restore the drive identifier.

Based on what I've heard and seen on the news, and on-line, ther don't seem to be enough problems with Windows 10, to trigger a great amount of angst.
I'll just have to accept being part of the 1/10th of 1 percent.

Have dug through enough old drives, and CD's to reconstruct most of my most important files.

.................................................. ............................................
The one strange thing that really stung, was that on one of the computers, when I went to "RESTORE"... it actually happened. I used it for three hours, and rebooted five or six times, until it came up the same "missing File C:\BCD", that blanked the first computer.
Absolutely no... nada, zero help from Microsoft on that error.
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Old 08-17-2015, 01:26 AM   #58
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Best advice I ever received about backups was: Count the number of your external drives containing up to date backups. Subtract 1. Respond appropriately.
+1
I did once have my backup drive die, just stopped working. Luckily my computer drive was still good. Now I use two separate backup drives. One is backed up daily, the other weekly. Am I paranoid? Most definitely yes.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:29 AM   #59
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+1
I did once have my backup drive die, just stopped working. Luckily my computer drive was still good. Now I use two separate backup drives. One is backed up daily, the other weekly. Am I paranoid? Most definitely yes.
No, drives can fail. We maintain two separate time machine backups.
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:41 AM   #60
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I lost my computer hard drive and the backup hard drive within an hour of each other. That week was fun.
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