A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free! Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE! You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more! Join Early-Retirment.org For Free - Click Here
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-04-2006, 05:06 PM #2 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post   Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,049 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle 1) An internal combustion engine is only about 25-34% efficient. That 34% is for high-end engines (i.e., you don't have one). A gallon of gas is 33.3 kwh. Take your per kwh charge and multiply = what a "gallon of gas" costs from the grid. Now you need to figure out what the car can get with a gallon of gas. Let's say a Pruis, which is kinda Civic-like, can get 35 mpg highway. At 25% efficiency, that's ~140 miles if it were 100% efficient. The conversion of electrical to mechanical energy with a battery is about 80%. 80% * 140 miles = 112 miles on a "gallon of gas" See above for what a gallon of gas costs from the grid. At \$.10/kwh, you're talking about 2.97 cents/mile. 2) Good question. 3) Unknown at this time. 4) As of the last time we had a thread about the Prius, Toyota had only replaced battery packs due to accidents. They are supposed to last 10 years and can be replaced for \$3000. Edit: Amended numbers. Using EPA numbers for BTUs (113500/3413). __________________ __________________
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-04-2006, 05:17 PM #3 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post   Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,459 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle __________________
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-04-2006, 06:25 PM #4 Recycles dryer sheets   Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 362 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?sect...le&storyid=898 Steve Lapp's solar assisted Prius, interesting read. __________________ Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-04-2006, 08:13 PM #5 Moderator Emeritus   Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oahu Posts: 26,616 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle Thanks, guys, I'm going to keep an eye on that. Spouse pointed out that today's stock market gains could've paid for the whole project... then she asked me why I'm prowling through junkyards looking for the Taurus' replacement rear-wiper switch. I knew there was a good reason for marrying her! Steve Lapp calculates 125 watt-hour/km or 4.8 miles/KWhr. I'm going to have to keep chewing on the rest of the capacities if the Prius doesn't fully charge its batteries. As much as I admire Lapp's work, I have to say that the guy never thought of hauling a longboard on his roof. Sure, maybe the board will fit inside the Prius, but he could've mounted the PV panel on his hood! __________________ * * The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile. I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
10-04-2006, 11:00 PM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta suburbs
Posts: 881
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nords - How do I determine a car's mpk (miles per kilowatt)? - How many kilowatt-hours would I be dumping into a drained battery pack to fully charge it?
Easiest to determine empirically of course after you get the Prius.
My advice is to buy a kWh meter on eBay (less than \$50) and use it to track just prius charging.
Than it's easy, read odometer and kWh meter and voila: mpk = miles driven / kwh used

There was a poll on EV list a while ago about efficiencies and i think best conversions were in 100 Wh/km range (old Karman Ghia conversions come to mind for some reson)

How many kWh per pack it's up to you - depends on how big of a pack you install nad coulombic efficiency of particular battery chemistry.

Cool project anyway and I'm assuming you have seen PRIUS+ site: http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html
__________________

Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-05-2006, 09:34 AM #7 Dryer sheet wannabe   Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 19 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle Nords, we have a three year old, 6 kW grid-tied system (36 Sharpe 165 & two SB 2500) here in SoCal and we went with net metering. Our NEM rate schedule is based on a 9am-6 pm M-F time frame so we put back a fair amount of kWH back into grid on weekends (and holidays) that we do not get any credit for. My FIL has a 2004 Prius (that one day he will have to give up, I hope to be first in line) and I thought about what you mentioned in your post. We do more short errands on weekends, could charge up rather than give SCE free juice (which really bugs me). Coversion cost & availability is key but maybe by the time FIL is ready to give up his Prius, this will come down. Would be fun to do local short errands in the Prius on PV generated charge!! __________________
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
10-05-2006, 01:24 PM   #8
Moderator Emeritus

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sailor Easiest to determine empirically of course after you get the Prius. My advice is to buy a kWh meter on eBay (less than \$50) and use it to track just prius charging. http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html
Well, the whole point of this exercise is to do the engineering analysis and to know the costs before we whip out a credit card.

We have a Kill-A-Watt but I haven't found a 240V version, although I've read that a lot of the charging seems to be on 120V lines. Hot stuff.

Thanks for the website-- more studying!

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shtg42012 Nords, we have a three year old, 6 kW grid-tied system (36 Sharpe 165 & two SB 2500) here in SoCal and we went with net metering. Our NEM rate schedule is based on a 9am-6 pm M-F time frame so we put back a fair amount of kWH back into grid on weekends (and holidays) that we do not get any credit for.
God bless Hawaii's alternate-energy lobby, led by the solar contractors. They agitated long & hard with HECO to start the net-metering program, and then they lobbied all over again to get the books shifted from a monthly rebate balance to annually.

So now, with just a few hundred more watts of spouse-approved panels ("And this time I really mean it, honey!") we'd be able to build up a surplus bank during the summer that'd get us through the winter and totally flatten our electric bills.

When we expand this system I'm buying at least a 4.5 KW inverter, if not 6 KW. But right now we're running out of photovoltaic real estate faster than we're running out of inverter capacity.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.

Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-19-2006, 12:55 PM #10 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post   Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,459 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle Nords, given your recent power outage, I would have thought you'd be more interested in this Prius mod than a plug-in hybrid mod: PriUPS __________________
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-19-2006, 01:21 PM #11 Full time employment: Posting here.   Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northern, Florida Posts: 925 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle Nords, you might want to subscribe to the EV Discussion List here: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html There are lots of engineers and other people on the list who would probably be happy to crunch the numbers with you and offer helpful suggestions. __________________ Retired in 2006 at age 49. "Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-19-2006, 08:56 PM #12 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post   Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,316 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle A co-worker has a 2006 prius. The a/c will run w/o the gas engine running. Even parked. The engine will start to protect the battery in this mode. Also, the second generation Prius has a huge windshield and rear hatch glass. Makes a great solar heater ! and this car is white with the tan interior. __________________ “The finance industry is 5% rational people and 95% shamans and faith healers.” - Charlie Munger
Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle
 10-19-2006, 11:40 PM #13 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post   Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DFW Posts: 2,627 Re: A used plug-in hybrid vehicle My BiL has a 2006 Prius. The AC compressor is electric and works great. I can't speak for the older model. From what I've read, I'm under the impression that the battery longevity is helped by the fact that the batteries are never fully charged or fully drained. I wonder if charging them up from the plug will reduce battery life? My oversimplified summary take on the Hybrid Synergy Drive system is that the battery is there to store and later deliver the gas motor power that would normally be wasted, and it wasn't designed with external charging in mind. But the base of my hybrid expertise is a few hours riding in my BiL's car and a handful of hours reading about it on the internet. __________________ __________________

 Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)