Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-18-2014, 03:51 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23 View Post
Let's be real here. There is a difference between a spanking and a beating. The problem, IMHO, with this and other discussions is that people trying to criminalize this zero in on the beating and then want to outlaw the spanking. We have mentioned the 'Greatest Generation' here and in the news often. I dare say that 99% of that generation were spanked, some with a switch, some with a belt, and some with hands. I can't imagine them turning out much better. Likewise there are folks on this board that believe their parents went overboard, but appear to have made it to adult life successfully.

At one point I told my son I would not spank him. His school performance, and other activities proceed to degrade over a two year period. We changed the policy, one spanking later, and his attitude and actions changed, day and night. On the other hand, we never spanked our daughter. Did not have to. I could look at her with a harsh look and it was as effective as a spanking. Two different children, two different forms of discipline. Parents should be free of government and neighbors choosing the form of discipline that works for their children. You may not like it, and it may not work for your family, but, if the line between beating and spanking has not been crossed, I say the government has no business in it.

That is part of the "art" of discipline as one thing doesn't work the same on different children. Of course many here may have had well behaved children and would be in horror of administering a spanking. Why do it if it isn't needed? But I remember at school, as I got the system down, a few of the ornery ones wanted spankings, and I wouldn't do it. One kid, I quickly realized hitting his rear was like smacking a feather unto a brick, so I got his attention a different way to get him to "toe the line". Another kid smugly misbehaved knowing his mother wouldn't allow a paddling. Well after the third time to the office he thought wrong and I finally got her permission, and let's just say he was never in the office the rest of the year!
Beatings and spankings are not the same, and spankings are not the first line of defense in my personal beliefs. But, I remember my youth, and I was the type that respected the belt. Any less of a threat was a signal of weakness for me to exploit. The belt brought me back to reality... And I don't remember any welts lasting long enough for DFS to take a picture, but it hurt enough to remember I wasn't the boss!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-18-2014, 09:25 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
if the line between beating and spanking has not been crossed, I say the government has no business in it.
Well, that's a big part of the problem with Adrian Peterson's case. He believed he did not cross that line and that covering a 4 year old with welts/cuts on back, legs, scrotum, hands, etc was just discipline and not a "beating over the line" so was justified in doing so. He was open about discussing that that is how he disciplines his other kids as well and how he was raised, although recently it appears his lawyer has convinced him to change that narrative. Does the government still have no business in it. Clearly the child's mother doesn't agree.
__________________

__________________
growing_older is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 06:36 AM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
Tree-dweller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post

That said, a switch seems a bit much to me, particularly to put bruises on a 4 year old! Too much IMO - but I think it is important to let the investigation and justice system do their part rather than rush to judgement without the whole story.
Agreed. AP has been flayed in the court of public opinion (especially local sports talk radio). But I have little sympathy for him. A four year old child making an infrequent visit to his seldom-seen biological father deserves nothing but love during that visit.
__________________
"The future's uncertain, and the end is always near. Let it roll, baby, roll." - The Doors
Tree-dweller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 07:18 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,361
We were spanked, always on the butt and no where else, but never for a mistake or for something we came clean on. If were were it was for lying or being directly disobedient. I don't remember any spankings before the age of 7 or 8, and none after the age of 13 or 14. When were were spanked, our parents made sure we knew what it was for, and afterwards would do something to show that they loved us.

My siblings and I didn't like getting spanked, but looked back at it without resentment. I know we all spanked our kids (in the same way) much less and even more gently than our parents did. , My attitude was that my parents had so little and were sacrificing for us, so discipline was not unexpected. We were able to provide for our kids much better and hopefully they would see that and be more appreciative than we were. As adults our kids actually told us they were surprised they didn't get spanked more often.

My difference with AP is the age (4), the wounds, and - though this is not a popular view these days - being an absentee father... if you are going to have a child and not be with the mother and raise the kid together, you are not going to be around enough to really discern if or when such discipline is needed.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 08:33 AM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tree-dweller View Post
Agreed. AP has been flayed in the court of public opinion (especially local sports talk radio). But I have little sympathy for him. A four year old child making an infrequent visit to his seldom-seen biological father deserves nothing but love during that visit.
I agree. As I have learned more about what happened it is appalling.

On a broader level, how does society and the NFL balance "innocent until proven guilty" with swift justice. Should a player get suspended/terminated when allegations are made, when and arrest is made, when charges are filed, when a court decision is rendered or when appeals are exhausted? I'm concerned that at some point a player will get railroaded and his reputation ruined as a result of allegation that ultimately prove to be false. OTOH, the justice system is so slow that I'm not sure it makes sense to wait it out and allow a bad guy to keep playing but do we really want trial by public opinion or by the NFL?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 08:39 AM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
On a broader level, how does society and the NFL balance "innocent until proven guilty" with swift justice. Should a player get suspended/terminated when allegations are made, when and arrest is made, when charges are filed, when a court decision is rendered or when appeals are exhausted? I'm concerned that at some point a player will get railroaded and his reputation ruined as a result of allegation that ultimately prove to be false. OTOH, the justice system is so slow that I'm not sure it makes sense to wait it out and allow a bad guy to keep playing but do we really want trial by public opinion or by the NFL?
Think of it in terms of your employer (or former employer). A company does not have to follow the "innocent until proven guilty" stance. They can terminate an employee at will. Even in the case of unions, they can be be "moral" clauses that can be written into employment contracts that allow termination for what a company may deem "moral" issues.

In the case of the NFL, they look at it from that perspective as well as a "how much damage/distraction will this do to our 'brand'". Not saying it is right. But the NFL is most concerned about making money, and for anything potentially detrimental to that, or threatening their existing money stream,s they are going to take action.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 08:47 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,433
I wasn't saying the NFL doesn't have the right to do what it is/has done, that will be determined by arbitration of union grievances and or litigation. I'm just wondering where they should draw the line. In an employment situation, how long do you stand behind an employee and when do you cut them loose? While damage to the brand is an important factor another is standing behind and employee who is falsely accused.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 09:00 AM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
I wasn't saying the NFL doesn't have the right to do what it is/has done, that will be determined by arbitration of union grievances and or litigation. I'm just wondering where they should draw the line. In an employment situation, how long do you stand behind an employee and when do you cut them loose? While damage to the brand is an important factor another is standing behind and employee who is falsely accused.
For the NFL, damage to the brand trumps standing behind employees. These are time times we are in. They error on the side of supporting the brand ahead of the employee.

The NFL doesn't just look at its players as football players, they look at them as representing the game. And the game comes first.

As a contrast, look at how long the NFL dragged its feet dealing with concussions... and how little in proportion they spend on the health care of former players... that gives you an idea of their priorities.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 09:56 AM   #49
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,817
I was spanked, with a belt. It left welts. I swore I wouldn't spank... but in reality, I have spanked when other options were exhausted... but bare handed, and after a firm discussion.

A friend of my son told a teacher he was beaten by his parents. Teacher was obligated to report by law. CPS interviewed the kid and the parents. The "standard" is that if it leaves a mark, it's crossing a line. In this case it was determined not to be abuse. The mom was completely freaked out to have a social worker interviewing her, her husband, and her child... all separately... as if they were criminals. She's also freaked out that it's probably permanently on the records at school.

I agree with Mulligan that different kids react to different forms of discipline. One of my sons will correct his behavior with the slightest sign of disapproval. The other is much more oppositional and pushes it. There were points where taking away privileges, extensive discussions, being set in the naughty spot, failed. He continued destructive behavior. A spanking seemed to snap him out of that. It's rare, but it was part of our arsenal.

I agree with the OP about the following
- Our house is not a democracy.
- I am not trying to be my kids friend... I am their parent.

However - I encourage my kids to voice their opinion. We have dinner every night as a family and we discuss a broad range of subjects. The kids are encourage to engage in the topics (politics, religion, current events) but to have facts to back their opinions. They are becoming excellent critical thinkers because we challenge them (and conversely, they challenge our preconceived notions.) They are allowed to disagree with us - but not dogmatically... they have to have rational reasons.
__________________
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 11:37 AM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
I agree with you Rodi. Unfortunately some kids need a power play put on them. I only had one kid, a girl, and she was kind of nerdy bless her heart, so she got one weak hand spanking ever and that was all she ever needed. I probably got 3/4 a year during the tween years and deserved everyone. I still will not argue with my Dad today as respect from learning from my smart mouth. And yes, we get along great. Unfortunately the phrases "the quickest way to a child's brain is through their rear", "fear is the beginning of respect" and "the board of education" were not coined for no reason. Like you said, it is the preferably the last line of discipline.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 10:11 PM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,428
I always liked the rule "never spank when you are angry". If you can leave the emotion out of it and just apply a spanking as pure discipline, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. No anger equals no damage.

DD has said many times she'd rather have been spanked than "talked to".
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #52
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sayreville
Posts: 7
We were never hit or threatened to be hit as kids, and I was a handful compared to my siblings. My punishments included being grounded, no TV, or things taken away from me. I remember my Dad appearing out of nowhere and taking my bike away for a week when I rode out of the neighbors driveway onto the street without looking. We also all knew that when a punishment was given out there was no reprieve. If Adrian Peterson had "whooped" his dog like that, he would be charged with animal cruelty. If he did that to an adult he would be charged with assault. But because he did it to a defenseless 4 year old that is his son, he and other people defend it as his parental right. I cringe when I think of that little boy receiving defensive wounds on his hands trying to fend off that beating from the man that is supposed to love him. I have friends that hit their kids when they were young, always in a state of anger, and justified it as teaching them a lesson. I am thankful my parents chose to teach us a more valuable lesson, actions have consequences, but under no circumstances EVER should anyone, especially a child, have to fear being hurt on purpose by someone who is supposed to love and protect them.
__________________

__________________
2cutebts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peter Peterson interview on Charlie Rose tulak FIRE and Money 9 07-10-2009 11:10 AM
HSA & young children pinkmali FIRE and Money 0 03-07-2006 12:07 PM
Impact of Wealth or ER on Children & Grandkids Mountain_Man Other topics 5 02-27-2005 03:48 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.