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Old 05-08-2016, 02:34 PM   #61
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From what I have read the battery pack for an electric vehicle will last 70,000 to 100,000 miles. The replacement cost for a battery pack can be $9,000 up to $15,000. If what I have read is accurate that does not bode well for their used car market.
That certainly does not hold for the Prius, although I used to hear the same thing for them. DD's Prius has 160,000 miles and is still going strong.
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Old 05-08-2016, 03:59 PM   #62
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From what I have read the battery pack for an electric vehicle will last 70,000 to 100,000 miles. The replacement cost for a battery pack can be $9,000 up to $15,000. If what I have read is accurate that does not bode well for their used car market.


I am not sure about other manufacturers but the BMW i3 battery warranty is 100K miles or 8 years. Not sure of the cost but they will be expensive though coming down with the new battery volume/technology.

The longest mile i3 I am aware of has 50K miles and so far has lost only 5% of charge so it appears the life of the batteries might be significantly longer than the warrantied life (same as a standard engine).
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:27 PM   #63
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Prius is 8 years and 100k miles also on hybrid components warranty.
Very, very few Prius have had battery problems so far.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:38 PM   #64
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From what I have read the battery pack for an electric vehicle will last 70,000 to 100,000 miles. The replacement cost for a battery pack can be $9,000 up to $15,000. If what I have read is accurate that does not bode well for their used car market.
Battery replacement could be high 4-figures.

But in 10 years or however long after buying you need to replace the whole battery pack, you will have presumably saved a lot of money from not spending money on oil changes, transmission repairs and maintenance and other costs for maintaining ICE which EVs don't appear to have.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:39 PM   #65
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I am willing to wait and see what the trade in value for those vehicles will be.
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:00 PM   #66
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That certainly does not hold for the Prius, although I used to hear the same thing for them. DD's Prius has 160,000 miles and is still going strong.
The battery life seems to be good for the hybrids, but I'm curious to see if it is similar for all electrics. In my hybrid Escape, the battery is never discharged past 43% and never more than 56%, plus it has it's own AC circuit to keep it cool and an algorithm to self warm it in cold weather. The charge / discharge cycle would seem to be more severe for an all electric vehicle.
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:28 PM   #67
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The battery life seems to be good for the hybrids, but I'm curious to see if it is similar for all electrics. In my hybrid Escape, the battery is never discharged past 43% and never more than 56%, plus it has it's own AC circuit to keep it cool and an algorithm to self warm it in cold weather. The charge / discharge cycle would seem to be more severe for an all electric vehicle.
About a year ago DD managed to drain the battery in the Prius dead. It was so dead it would not start with a jump. She had it towed to the local Toyota dealer and they charged it up and it has been fine. Moral of this story: Yes, you do have to stop at a gas station every once in a while. Even in a Prius.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:05 PM   #68
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I am willing to wait and see what the trade in value for those vehicles will be.
You already know what the trade-in value for these vehicles is - crap. They've been around for enough years now, and they'll trade-in for crap for as long as gas is cheap and folks doubt the stats already out there that the packs last for well over 100k miles. Don't forget that these are highly managed batteries, they don't fully discharge and charging is regulated.

The whole point of buying a 2-3 year old Leaf or Volt is that you're getting a great deal on a car that still has a lot of life left in it. You don't have to take the massive hit these cars have now. But some just can't consider buying anything but new.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #69
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The whole point of buying a 2-3 year old Leaf or Volt is that you're getting a great deal on a car that still has a lot of life left in it. You don't have to take the massive hit these cars have now. But some just can't consider buying anything but new.
While I generally agree with your first sentence, I'm not as comfortable with your implied conclusion that only people who *have* to have new cars should consider new cars.

Battery-electric vehicles are still on the steep part of the development curve. In a small number of years (2-5?) we'll see multiple BEVs on the market with 200+ mile ranges.

Given how much of a compromise the current 80-100 mile range is, I think this is a potential game changer.

While I generally believe in buying cars and driving them into the ground, I think in this particular time period, a BEV buyer will probably have strong pressures to upgrade in the not-too-distant future.

It's on that basis that I chose to lease a new VW e-Golf instead of buying outright. I believe that just about when the lease is up, there will be a few electric vehicles on the market that will be "keepers."

Buying used is certainly better than buying new - but I'd strongly recommend considering a lease.
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Old 05-10-2016, 04:01 PM   #70
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Average miles driven per day is under 30:

New Study Reveals When, Where and How Much Motorists Drive | AAA NewsRoom

I think EVs with electric ranges of 100-125 will more than satisfy the commute needs of most Americans.

Of course, people won't spend $40k or more just for a commute vehicle.

If EVs with range extenders get you 150 miles for lets say around $30k, they could steal a lot of the thunder from the Tesla Model 3 or the Chevy Bolt.

Especially if these 200 mile EVs cost more like $40k out the door with various options.
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Old 05-10-2016, 04:37 PM   #71
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Just got back from a ride in my neighbor's Tesla Model X.

Holy moly! More like a spaceship than a car. He demonstrated the autonomous driving mode which worked even on a small country road.

It really pushes you back into the seat when it accelerates. Range of 250 miles.

I wasn't at all tempted, though, to spend the $107,000.00 that my neighbor spent for his. It wasn't super quiet on the highway.

Everything is electric, from opening the doors to adjusting the seats. I see that, in part, as just more things that can break.

Fun experience, though.
The ~$30K (after fed tax credit) Tesla Model 3 is the mass production car. The early Tesla cars are for many early adopters and gives them money for R&D of the mass production car. This was the documented plan for like 8 years in the early blogs. It is an early adopter type purchase like plasma TV, early cell phones, flat screen monitors, etc.

If the Model S (sedan) or Model X (cross over) fit your needs and the cost does NOT affect your lifestyle in anyway then LIVE your life that you've worked hard for. Not everything has to work out on spreadsheet. Your investments alone can pay for it. Car loans are 2% (or 2.04% in my case).

It is a pretty spectacular vehicle. Everyone I demo to says some of the same things. Blown away by the features. As one small example when you leave your garage it will shut the door for you. Driving on the highway you can let it do 95% of the work. I did that on a 1000+ mile trip recently.

The "big sky" windshields is amazing to ride with going in the trees, under bridges, mountains, etc, etc.


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Old 05-11-2016, 04:55 PM   #72
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Maybe we don't need two cars.
Lena called home last night to say she'd be late from choir rehearsal. Of course, for a second I thought "Another accident."

That made me realize that it's pretty important to have two cars if something like that happens.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:37 PM   #73
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Outside of the Central Valley there are few flat freeways in California. Our freeways in the east are somewhat flat in a few places. I'm a Prius owner since 2009. We use the Prius for long trips precisely due to the great gas mileage in all circumstances. 45.7 mpg, city or highway. The gas engine shuts off every time you go down a hill and the wheels recharge the battery.

We just took a road trip to Atlanta from PA, about 1500 miles round trip. We went 70 mph or a little over for much of the rural highway driving. Overall gas mileage actually improved a bit according to the car's computer. We have 116K miles on the car.


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As an experienced Prius driver, I wonder how you feel the about the rear visibility(or lack there of). I test drove one a couple years ago and couldn't get over the blind spots out the back of the car. I love the concept of the Prius but they have to change the rear design before i'll consider buying one. Do you get used to it? It seems dangerous to me.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:57 PM   #74
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As an experienced Prius driver, I wonder how you feel the about the rear visibility(or lack there of). I test drove one a couple years ago and couldn't get over the blind spots out the back of the car. I love the concept of the Prius but they have to change the rear design before i'll consider buying one. Do you get used to it? It seems dangerous to me.
I thought that myself on first drive.Yes, you do get used to it. I've drove my 2014 20000 miles now(51.96 mpg overall average) and I am used to it.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:00 PM   #75
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Lena called home last night to say she'd be late from choir rehearsal. Of course, for a second I thought "Another accident."

That made me realize that it's pretty important to have two cars if something like that happens.
A very good point. I've occasionally entertained the thought of a one car household when I retire, but sometimes it seems too restrictive to plan events that don't conflict. Even though we have a motorcycle that DH can ride for a real transportation dilemma, it wouldn't help me much if DH had the car and I needed to go somewhere at last minute's notice. I can't reach the ground on that thing!
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:10 PM   #76
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Can anyone explain why this 2016 Leaf, 477 miles, could be so cheap ($16,500)?

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Old 05-11-2016, 07:23 PM   #77
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CarFax says it's off a one-month personal lease, which looks very odd.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:10 PM   #78
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I don't have an EV yet myself (put in an order for a Tesla 3, so maybe late next year) but three people I know have the Chevy Spark and absolutely love it. They say the driving experience is terrific (much better than the Leaf, according to them). They all got them last year during some sort of lease promotion (don't know if it is still available) but so far all three of them seem to be happy.
FWIW, the black color is definitely the classiest and softens the "odd" look, IMO.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:29 PM   #79
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Can anyone explain why this 2016 Leaf, 477 miles, could be so cheap ($16,500)?
Keep in mind the Nissan LEAF is the only electric (EV) or plug in hybrid electric (PHEV) that does not have a battery cooling system. And they way the treated the early adopters was embarrassingly bad. I watched from afar.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:01 AM   #80
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I would like to know how well an all electric (not hybrid) car works in extreme cold. At 40 degrees below zero the lithium batteries in my outdoor weather station cease to function. When batteries have to power the vehicle as well as heat the interior at that temperature I suspect one would not be going very far on a charge.
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