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Old 01-11-2014, 02:05 AM   #41
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For some time now (at least CA where I work), managers are required to report such things with or without consent from complainer. We are also required to get training on harassment every other year.
Maybe that was it. I actually never complained about the manager harassing me, at least not at first. I just tried to avoid him over that. But then he still sought me out and once when he located me he told me to my face that I was mentally ill for shying away from him and seemed to have a problem with men. You know, your normal every day, totally work place appropriate manager - subordinate kind of chat - not!

Sadly, I can't say he was even the worst boss I ever had. I have worked for some crazy people over the years, too.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:11 AM   #42
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I've had a few stints with bad bosses. What usually works for me is making sure I meet every explicit or implied commitment I make. Ever say "I can do that" then I do it and keep a log. Otherwise try to keep head down, appear visible at my desk for ALL working hours and then some, and hope someone else looks more attractive to get boss' unique brand of attention. This has almost always bought considerable time for a possible job search, or for boss to simply leave or move on. Sadly, it doesn't always work.

Currently I find myself in a similar situation. Maybe 2-3 years until FIRE and I'd prefer to keep this job until then. After 2 good bosses, I've now got a new clueless one. Every meeting he has new (unattainable) goals and ideas and the entire dept is confused and seething. We've lost a few people already directly because of him. I'm looking and I'm sure many others are. At least he's not evil, just unrealistic and out of touch. Still it will almost certainly mean we all lose our bonus for 2014, so maybe he's a management fox.

I'm trying to be as detached as possible. The job just needs to pay expenses for a few years. Let the 401k continue to pile up. Hope the market is kind. Watch that end date get ever closer on the calendar. And, I I do have a low key job search active in case I can turn up a better situation.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:12 AM   #43
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Looking bad through my career, I've never had a crazy-nuts psycho type of boss, but I can say they were all "managers" except for one "leader", who happens to be the person who hired me into my current company. Brilliant technical guy, nicest guy you could work for, but unfortunately for me, I'm now two levels below him (he's VP level, I'm a peon) because of company growth. I have no desire to climb the ladder, so no chance of reducing the number of levels between me and him. Oh well. Such is life.

Anyway...reading through all these bad boss stories made me remember somebody I used to work for a few years ago who used to talk about what he was going to do when he left MegaCorp.

One day in the company cafeteria at lunch, he started telling us about how he was going to start his own company with a handful of employees, put them into stressful situations, stir the pot, and then watch what develops. Almost like he'd get a kick out of manipulating people and making their lives hell. I think he was serious, too, he sure didn't seem like he was joking.

My group never sat with him at lunch again, that's for sure.
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:32 AM   #44
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One day in the company cafeteria at lunch, he started telling us about how he was going to start his own company with a handful of employees, put them into stressful situations, stir the pot, and then watch what develops. Almost like he'd get a kick out of manipulating people and making their lives hell. I think he was serious, too, he sure didn't seem like he was joking.
This is what my boss is doing. He enjoys seeing others suffer/squirm. E.g, he'd ask a subjective question. Any answer one gives is the wrong answer and he will demean & counter it with his own subjective one. A real sad guy, really.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:35 PM   #45
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Interesting article on different management styles:

http://hiring.monster.com/hr/hr-best...of-bosses.aspx

MRG
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:18 PM   #46
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About half way into my 12 years with a tyrant, he figured out I was buying and managing rental property. So he called me into his office and demanded my "moonlighting" stop.

I had been teetering on an REO purchase .. wasn't sure bringing another property into the fold was too much. Well NOW I had my answer ... I ultimately would purchase 6 properties from the same bank. The appreciation and monthly cashflow that followed provided a good chunk of my FI. Always said I had my boss to thank.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:06 PM   #47
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I always viewed the occasional bad boss as an opportunity for me to practice my coping skills. One of them was fired. Another suffered a fatal heart attack on the job.

I am always sympathetic to those situations for employees but never for the bosses.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:45 PM   #48
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This is what my boss is doing. He enjoys seeing others suffer/squirm. E.g, he'd ask a subjective question. Any answer one gives is the wrong answer and he will demean & counter it with his own subjective one. A real sad guy, really.
Given any thought to just getting the hell out of Dodge? You've got two years left. Do you really want to spend two years out of your life in this type of environment? Every time we're stressed our bodies release Cortisol. Studies have shown continued release due to chronic low level stress damages the body considerably. What are your other options? I'll bet if you started looking for another job if only as an experiment the idea of having options would help immensely.

What has changed my attitude (about everything actually) is not to view ER as some type of panacea. I told myself I need to be happy now, not the day after I retire (even if it is only 55 Tuesdays away, but who's counting? )

Unhappiness results from lack of control, and there are only two responses: take action or walk away. Failure to do either will eat slowly away at you. Do you really want that?
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:41 PM   #49
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Given any thought to just getting the hell out of Dodge? You've got two years left. Do you really want to spend two years out of your life in this type of environment? Every time we're stressed our bodies release Cortisol. Studies have shown continued release due to chronic low level stress damages the body considerably. What are your other options? I'll bet if you started looking for another job if only as an experiment the idea of having options would help immensely.

What has changed my attitude (about everything actually) is not to view ER as some type of panacea. I told myself I need to be happy now, not the day after I retire (even if it is only 55 Tuesdays away, but who's counting? )

Unhappiness results from lack of control, and there are only two responses: take action or walk away. Failure to do either will eat slowly away at you. Do you really want that?
Fully agree, thanks. My target retirement date is moving up as I write. I don't believe I will wait two more years for RE.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:06 PM   #50
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I can thank my two bosses for the incentive to ER. they have the classic clueless approach to demean people, take credit for your your, make threats on future performance lie, never giving credit and always nitpicking on minor items while the ship is sinking. It was planning to retire at 67, but after reading this forum, doing the math and the numbers, we were able to ER at 60 years old, or 7 years early. I wish I could have done this sooner! I do not miss mega corp, even though it has only been 6 weeks sine I "pulled the pin"". It feels great! I feel sorry for the employees suffering under these two tyrants I was able to escape from. Sometimes I feel guilty!, How crazy is that? I just need to learn to forgive, forget and move on!
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:53 PM   #51
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I can thank my two bosses for the incentive to ER. they have the classic clueless approach to demean people, take credit for your your, make threats on future performance lie, never giving credit and always nitpicking on minor items while the ship is sinking. It was planning to retire at 67, but after reading this forum, doing the math and the numbers, we were able to ER at 60 years old, or 7 years early. I wish I could have done this sooner! I do not miss mega corp, even though it has only been 6 weeks sine I "pulled the pin"". It feels great! I feel sorry for the employees suffering under these two tyrants I was able to escape from. Sometimes I feel guilty!, How crazy is that? I just need to learn to forgive, forget and move on!
It takes a while to let go, de-stress, and deal with feelings such as the guilt you are mentioning. Give yourself a break! To me it seemed like peeling an onion, layer by layer. You think you are done, and then discover there is more. The more stress you had (sounds like quite a lot), the more layers there are. You have only been retired for six weeks, and you will be peeling that onion for a while, I suspect. I think I was about 90% done after six months, but it took a couple of years before I truly felt I had left all the baloney behind me completely and forever. You WILL get to the last layer, though, and believe me, it is great.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:00 PM   #52
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This is what my boss is doing. He enjoys seeing others suffer/squirm. E.g, he'd ask a subjective question. Any answer one gives is the wrong answer and he will demean & counter it with his own subjective one. A real sad guy, really.
Have you spoken with HR about his behavior and how it is affecting you? This boss is probably terrorizing a lot of people. Sometimes your information is the last piece of the puzzle. On several occasions during my career I have seen evidence build up and difficult people fail to respond to remedial measures, until eventually they were dismissed. I think this is at least worth a try. If your workplace is not a place where you can bring confidential concerns to light, then it's probably wise to leave as soon as possible.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:07 PM   #53
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Interesting article on different management styles:

21 Types of Bosses | Monster.com

MRG

Yup, my boss is combination of what follows. I suspect he has narcissistic personality disorder on top.

4. The Manipulator Boss

Also known as the Machiavellian boss, this type is extremely intelligent and one of the most dangerous. The manipulator boss is highly focused, very motivated, and always has a secret plan. He looks at people as a means to an end. The world is a giant pyramid and the apex is his. People he touches or runs over on the way to the top are casualties he writes off. If you work for a manipulator, watch your back. Your best bet is to be open and honest with him. Volunteer information. Your boss, who has long forgotten what truth is, will be left impressed by it.

8. The God Boss

The god boss, a true megalomaniac, is about power. You?ll notice the engraved gold plate on his office door, desk, and chair proclaiming his rank. He might take outrageous liberties like having an employee clean out his car. When you question him, he?ll just point to the gold plates. Rest assured that his cloak of power hides great incompetence. How to get along with a god boss? Humour him. Follow his rules, and create the illusion you?re doing things his way. Remember, he?ll never control your mind.


19. The Perfectionist

The perfectionist is a micro-manager who likes to control all of your work. The behaviour is obsessive, and leaves you with very little trust in your own abilities. Over time, you?ll learn that nothing you do will ever be good enough for him. Instead of losing all motivation, learn to work for yourself and your own standards. At one point, sit down with your boss and ask him to explain his expectations (even put them in writing) so you both can ?get on the same page.?
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:08 PM   #54
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Advice on how to work for terrible boss ....

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Have you spoken with HR about his behavior and how it is affecting you? This boss is probably terrorizing a lot of people. Sometimes your information is the last piece of the puzzle. On several occasions during my career I have seen evidence build up and difficult people fail to respond to remedial measures, until eventually they were dismissed. I think this is at least worth a try. If your workplace is not a place where you can bring confidential concerns to light, then it's probably wise to leave as soon as possible.

Yes. I worked at a place for 23 years, had about 7 managers and got along well with all but one. That nut tried to get me fired, but they fired him instead. In my exit interview I mentioned what a train wreck he was and the HR director said "yep, I've heard that before"
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:11 PM   #55
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Have you spoken with HR about his behavior and how it is affecting you? This boss is probably terrorizing a lot of people. Sometimes your information is the last piece of the puzzle. On several occasions during my career I have seen evidence build up and difficult people fail to respond to remedial measures, until eventually they were dismissed. I think this is at least worth a try. If your workplace is not a place where you can bring confidential concerns to light, then it's probably wise to leave as soon as possible.

About 4 - 5 years ago, almost every departing employee went to HR about his behavior. It scared him a bit but also made him more careful. For example, he won't respond to e-mail that can be later be disputed.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:15 PM   #56
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Yup, my boss is combination of what follows. I suspect he has narcissistic personality disorder on top.

4. The Manipulator Boss

Also known as the Machiavellian boss, this type is extremely intelligent and one of the most dangerous. The manipulator boss is highly focused, very motivated, and always has a secret plan. He looks at people as a means to an end. The world is a giant pyramid and the apex is his. People he touches or runs over on the way to the top are casualties he writes off. If you work for a manipulator, watch your back. Your best bet is to be open and honest with him. Volunteer information. Your boss, who has long forgotten what truth is, will be left impressed by it.

8. The God Boss

The god boss, a true megalomaniac, is about power. You?ll notice the engraved gold plate on his office door, desk, and chair proclaiming his rank. He might take outrageous liberties like having an employee clean out his car. When you question him, he?ll just point to the gold plates. Rest assured that his cloak of power hides great incompetence. How to get along with a god boss? Humour him. Follow his rules, and create the illusion you?re doing things his way. Remember, he?ll never control your mind.


19. The Perfectionist

The perfectionist is a micro-manager who likes to control all of your work. The behaviour is obsessive, and leaves you with very little trust in your own abilities. Over time, you?ll learn that nothing you do will ever be good enough for him. Instead of losing all motivation, learn to work for yourself and your own standards. At one point, sit down with your boss and ask him to explain his expectations (even put them in writing) so you both can ?get on the same page.?
You don't want to work for this person. Get out. Find another job, it doesn't have to pay as much. When you've landed something else, email your resignation, effective immediately.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:17 PM   #57
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Hopefully you will find as you get closer to FI, it just doesn't matter. I am committed to a 40-45 hours work week this year which will surely create waves. Today I told my "boss" (at this point no one's my boss) I would be not attending a couple of meetings stacked up in far flung cities next week. I was surprised there no push back at all. Maybe it will bite me at annual review time next month, not really, I'm FI!
No chance of a severence package so I may as well enjoy it. The SOB bosses really have an impossible task when dealing with people who are in the "bonus round" of employment. My only goal is to serve my long time friends/clients and coworkers until it's no longer fun.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:34 PM   #58
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You don't want to work for this person. Get out. Find another job, it doesn't have to pay as much. When you've landed something else, email your resignation, effective immediately.
I am debating if finding another job with 1 - 2 more years to go before RE is worth the move. Nevertheless, I started sending resume out.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:23 PM   #59
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I am debating if finding another job with 1 - 2 more years to go before RE is worth the move. Nevertheless, I started sending resume out.
Good move. I think the market for experienced people has rebounded significantly. Companies dumped their veteran workers during the economic crisis, and now they're finding themselves short of go-to people. You may be surprised at the demand.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:14 PM   #60
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Given any thought to just getting the hell out of Dodge? You've got two years left. Do you really want to spend two years out of your life in this type of environment? Every time we're stressed our bodies release Cortisol. Studies have shown continued release due to chronic low level stress damages the body considerably. What are your other options? I'll bet if you started looking for another job if only as an experiment the idea of having options would help immensely.

What has changed my attitude (about everything actually) is not to view ER as some type of panacea. I told myself I need to be happy now, not the day after I retire (even if it is only 55 Tuesdays away, but who's counting? )

Unhappiness results from lack of control, and there are only two responses: take action or walk away. Failure to do either will eat slowly away at you. Do you really want that?
Absolutely agree with this! I realized some years ago that while I may tell myself to "suck it up buttercup" or tough things out, my body is smarter than my intellectualizing. I've had my hair fall out in patches, chronic sleep (early waking) problems, something that felt like lyme disease or fibromyalgia - all due to job stress at different jobs. I was like a magnet for workaholic and demanding bosses with my "will work for pats on the head" mentality. Miraculously all went away when I left the toxic work place(s).

On a positive note, this kind of thing did get me all "FIRE'd" up years ago to want to be in a position to walk away from a bad work environment easily, but it's like I didn't see there was another option - to find jobs where people weren't jerks.

Check out the book Snakes in Suits: Amazon.com: Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work eBook: Paul Babiak, Robert D. Hare: Kindle Store

Another very good one is The Sociopath Next Door: Amazon.com: The Sociopath Next Door eBook: Martha Stout Ph.D.: Kindle Store

I'm in the middle of reading Jon Ronson's (of Men who Stare at Goats fame) highly entertaining The Psychopath Test: Amazon.com: the psychopath test

The part about how the head of the Scientologists forced everyone to play an all-night game of musical chairs was so bizarre it was hilarious.
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