After college, why sign up for the military?

[martyb]

Chicks dig a guy in uniform!

[HFWR]

Forget all about that macho ****, and learn how to play guitar...

John "Cougar" Mellencamp

[samclem]

"I gave my love a cherry that had no stone . . . "

Animal House - guitar smash scene • VideoSift: Online Video *Quality Control

[Wags]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR Forget all about that macho ****, and learn how to play guitar... John "Cougar" Mellencamp

Would you prefer country & western, rock, ballads, etc...., etc...?

Playing guitar might be a good idea it might keep one out of trouble.

[martyb]

I have a guitar (Martin D-35). I don't know if what I do with it would qualify as playing, though.

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wags Would you prefer country & western, rock, ballads, etc...., etc...?

We like both kinds of music: country AND western...

Quote:

Playing guitar might be a good idea it might keep one out of trouble.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Average Joe A minority of officers earn their degrees at the service academies. Most officers have civilian educations, some augmented by ROTC, others not. A small minority enlist, earn degrees while on active duty, and get commissioned later. Although I took that latter route, I’m in favor of the military’s continued acceptance of persons who attended college prior to joining. I see why you might object to it. I concede that a college degree may show that its holder has spent years in an atmosphere where the military is despised and disdained, and the US is viewed as a racist, oppressive, imperialist entity. And that the degree itself may prove nothing other than attendance with no actual knowledge or ability gained. And that the classes attended may have often had a strong element of indoctrination into the notion that facts inconsistent with a nice worldview are not really facts and could only be believed by mean and bad people. Nevertheless, some people learn valuable things in college; things of use to the military. And the spirit of independent thought is hard enough to kill that some people graduate from college with their individuality and ability to think for themselves still intact. Some of them come to believe that the US is great country, that the system of limited government and individual rights mandated by the constitution and bill of rights are worth preserving, and that serving in the US military is an honorable, worthwhile, and rewarding way to help preserve them. And it’s good to have the military drawn from a broad cross section of society. Doing otherwise would reinforce caste separatism that can grow out of a civil-military divide and make for bad civil-military relations in a republic whose constitution mandates civil control of the military. Plus lieutenants with no military experience other than 90 days of training can be entertaining.

What a laughable diatribe! Did you get that from the NRA or Rethuglican Party talking points? Maybe from "Rush?"

[martyb]

I'm in your corner, Joe.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What a laughable diatribe! Did you get that from the NRA or Rethuglican Party talking points? Maybe from "Rush?"

No specifics as to the source of discontent, so we are left to assume that the post-er believes one or more of the following:
-- Colleges are doing a good job of teaching independent thought
-- There is a positive disposition toward the military on most college campuses
-- It would be a good idea to draw military officers from a small, isolated section of the American public.
-- Lieutenants are not fun to watch.

Here we go!

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What a laughable diatribe! Did you get that from the NRA or Rethuglican Party talking points? Maybe from "Rush?"

Wow! This is very telling.

Good post joe.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem No specifics as to the source of discontent, so we are left to assume that the post-er believes one or more of the following: -- Colleges are doing a good job of teaching independent thought -- There is a positive disposition toward the military on most college campuses -- It would be a good idea to draw military officers from a small, isolated section of the American public. -- Lieutenants are not fun to watch.

Ah, it was more the right wing party line about higher education being a bastion of stalinist thought police. I have heard the same nonsense pretty much verbatim from right wing wacko talk radio a number of times.

So you'll pardon me if I chuckle at our, um, over-compensating pro-military poster pal.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What a laughable diatribe! Did you get that from the NRA or Rethuglican Party talking points? Maybe from "Rush?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Ah, it was more the right wing party line about higher education being a bastion of stalinist thought police. I have heard the same nonsense pretty much verbatim from right wing wacko talk radio a number of times. So you'll pardon me if I chuckle at our, um, over-compensating pro-military poster pal.

Brewer, I think this is a situation where you could lighten up a little. I don't see that Joe is parroting a right-wing subversive point of view but rather expressing his opinion-- which you just dumped all over.

IMO Joe's just pointing out that some colleges have a very anti-military stance yet produce graduates who are still interested in joining the military. I've seen that too. Other graduates haven't developed critical-thinking skills or any other obvious abilities valued by the military, yet the military lets them be officers anyway because they have a degree. I've seen a lot of that.

The military does need to come from a broad cross-section of society. Not just because there's a risk of developing a gulf between military culture and civilian, as happened in 1920s-30s Japan, but because the military needs to recruit from all the demographics they can-- men, women, WASPs, Latinos, African Americans, Muslims, Jews, and... maybe even... Democrats.

He's also right about ensign/lieutenant entertainment, although I think it can be found just as easily among the ones from the ranks and the service academies.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Brewer, I think this is a situation where you could lighten up a little. I don't see that Joe is parroting a right-wing subversive point of view but rather expressing his opinion-- which you just dumped all over. .

Um, no, I really was reacting to his parroting of far-right talking points that I sincerely doubt he came up with on his own.

We aren't going to agree and I have said my piece, so I will drop it, assuming others do the same. Wouldn't want to upset the powers that be, especially since we now have a community code.

Is it still OK to chew gum here?

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Is it still OK to chew gum here?

Yes...but no smacking!

[Average Joe]

Maybe I laid on the sarcasm and hyperbole in ways reasonable people might find excessive or inappropriate. But the basic points I was illustrating are….. Oh heck with it. I might as well fess up. I was just parroting right wing talking points. “Squawk! Polly want a take cut! Squawk!” I learned everything I know about the world from Rush Limbaugh (well… except the thing about lieutenants). Damn that work schedule that prevents me from tuning in during the day to soak up more wisdom from the master! How’m ah spozed to no wut to think if’n I cain’t listen to Rush? Thank Bill Buckley that we’ve got National Review! Now if only I could find someone to teach me them big words they’s always writin’ in there. Maybe when I RE, I can spend entire days soaking up right wing talking points and parroting them – “Squawk! No legislating from the judiciary! Squawk!”

When I attended a civilian graduate school, what I perceived as anti-military sentiment was probably just my princess-and-the-pea oversensitivity. It could be that people faulted me, not for being in the military, but for being unable to think for myself (which they noticed right away when I expressed ideas that differed from the crowd’s). Or maybe they suffered from envy; after all, many of the chicks couldn’t help but dig a military dude, even if I was unashamed of being a right wing moron. I sometimes felt that what especially irked the few really hardcore bigots - um, I mean caring and enlightened intellectuals from whom I picked up the hate vibes, was that I was happy – and I was very happy! Who wouldn’t be with Uncle Sam paying them to wear civies and study interesting things on a rather laid back schedule?

Later, when I attended a military grad school (NPS), I was among real diversity – Army, Navy (mostly), Air Force, Marines! Plus quite a few foreigners. Of course all were military men (well, mostly men – except profs who were mostly civilians and some of them not men). And naturally being in the military, we all had our ideas issued to us and we’d keep our right wing talking points polished real good - and ready so we could parrot ‘em whenever our profs tried to trick us into thinking about anything outside the box (this is juvenile sarcasm BTW – just thought I’d mention that for the nonnative English speakers and those afflicted with emoticon dependency syndrome). Anyway I suspect the real purpose of NPS is to make us have children. I, and it seemed that nearly every one of my married classmates, had their first (except the ones having their second) child at NPS. (Remember La Mesa housing Nords? We called it fertility hill) Everyone says it has something to do with mid career professional who are suddenly not away from home all the time. But maybe that’s just what they want us to think, huh? Maybe there’s a right wing conspiracy behind this somewhere – some kind of genetic project a la “Boys from Brazil” except having a conservative instead of a national socialis... uh oh - did I just fulfill Godwin’s law? $*#@! Can I be exonerated since it’s just an oblique reference in an analogy entirely tangential to the subject at hand?

Anyway I’ve attended both civilian and military grad schools. It’s hard to say which I like better - both had pros and cons and the pros far outweighed the cons in both cases. But it was obvious that a not insignificant number (among students and faculty) had “issues” with the military and with the US as compared to other states in general. Of course, I was just going to a lefty dominated civilian graduate school to learn about the opposition – you know, so I learn to better cook up the right wing conspiracies and cover-ups that we nefarious and clever (but stupid – don’t forget that we’re really stupid) right wingers are always using to pull the wool over the public’s eyes. We’re everywhere you know. Just look at some of the posts touching on politics in forums like this. You see those posts that look like unhinged reactionary leftism? I figure they must be right wingers trying to make the left look irrational and angry. They pose as lefties and stay just this side of sanity (with the odd jump to the other side every now and then) so as not to let on that what they are actually doing is parodying the left to highlight its faults and excesses.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Average Joe Anyway I suspect the real purpose of NPS is to make us have children. I, and it seemed that nearly every one of my married classmates, had their first (except the ones having their second) child at NPS. (Remember La Mesa housing Nords? We called it fertility hill)

Best duty station we ever had. Freshly married, we scraped together spare change to buy a condo and made 16% profit in two years, learned to SCUBA dive, and made a lot of long-term friendships. I even went to class a couple days a week. NPS threw the best Navy balls I can remember, and I think it had to do with the scarcity of O-6/flag attendees.

La Mesa was guaranteed to give you at least two of the three: a dog, dependents, or a divorce.

Our first week there we went to a baby shower in one of the octoplexes. (It wasn't unusual for an octoplex, four duplexes surrounding a grassy courtyard, to have well over a dozen kids playing in there.) Spouse and I, both being O-3s, naturally headed for the beer keg and the sea-story competition. Halfway there a flying wedge of officer's wives cut mine out of the herd and took her away for an interrogation. I didn't see her for almost 30 minutes.

Next Monday a surface nuclear officer sidled alongside and asked "How much radiation do you guys get exposed to on those subs, anyway?" (10-20 millirem a month underway, maybe 30-40 during inport maintenance. No big deal.) He said "Hunh" and moved on to other topics. However I got the same question about six times that day from various non-submarine officers.

I told the story when I got home-- spouse had a confession. The other spouses had mercilessly harassed her about her child-bearing plans (presumably including me) and just when she was going to catch up to the power curve. Unused to this line of questioning she finally cracked and blurted out "We're waiting until he recovers from his radiation exposure!"

DINKS were not looked upon favorably at NPS...

[deserat]

I'm late to this party - but , uhh, yeah, I guess I dig military dudes - ex was one (but got out) and current is one - however, I've also found that guys dig military gals ;-) I even had one guy (not my spouses) say seeing me in a unifom turned him on - hahahahahahahahahah

However, I also dig George Clooeny (his looks, not his politics), Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Harrison Ford - frankly, they are nice eye candy.....remeber the adage "tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[Gumby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deserat I've also found that guys dig military gals ;-)

Yes we do.

[Average Joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords DINKS were not looked upon favorably at NPS...

I can imagine. I don’t remember even knowing any DINKs there. I can only remember there being one unmarried dude in our loosely defined clique (he and I had some background in common, and became and have remained close friends) and he married the sister of one of our classmates shortly after graduation.

Monterey was definitely a great assignment – not sure if I’d call it the best. Different assignments were good in different ways. Personally, it was a great time of life. It was a welcome lull in tempo. I’d been on the go a lot since wife and I were married a few years earlier. We’d never had a honeymoon until a glorious 8 week vacation right before I reported to NPS – coincidentally we had a son nine months later (water broke while we were at a party probably not so different than the one you describe).
I enjoyed being around the people in my classes so much that I became uncharacteristically sociable and often had friends over and even had some large parties at the house. It was unusual to be in a place full of so many people that I liked so well that I wanted to have them all over. In my curriculum (which made up the majority of my circle of friends since we shared many classes and worked together on many things – and our wives befriended each other, reinforcing the phenomenon) about half of us were non-US officers and it seemed like about half of us (self included) were married to someone from a country other than our own. There were a lot of interesting tales to hear. Among us it was a very collegial environment – all peers regardless of differences in rank – a sort of vacation from concerns about maintaining good order and discipline. We were all doing the same thing and were charged with responsibility pretty much only for ourselves. That doesn’t happen very often.

[Rustic23]

In 1970 we were at the Defense Language School in Monterey, and lived in Carmel. BIL was at the NPS at the same time. One thing we commented on was the great selection of cloths at the NAPS exchange!