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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 08:02 AM   #21
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

P.S. I am aware that the assets could be eaten up
in various ways if one of my parents is incapacitated in some way. Unfortunately, it's probably something of that
nature which will enable me to act. Not a pretty picture.

JG
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 10:12 AM   #22
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Quote:
I am positive that my parents (Dad especially) would not agree to go anywhere to get educated. *Remember, my Dad thinks he has taken care of all of this. *My chances of making him see there is a problem and then getting him to fix it are near zero. *Plus, I don't want to damage my relationship with my Dad.
No one goes anywhere willingly to get educated.

Almost everyone will go somewhere for a free meal and a chance to compare their own superior omniscient prescient financial planning to that espoused by the bozos giving away the food.

It's all in the manipulation marketing...

Seriously, both my FIL and myself treat each other to this tactic (we're both food-loving superior planners). *Even at Schwab's "seminars" we still glean a nugget or two of knowledge & inspiration with plenty of entertainment.

I think our spouses are also happy to shoo us out of our homes to geek out financially without making them hang around to listen to the chest-thumping...
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 01:52 PM   #23
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

John, I know you don't want to push things too
hard but you need to know the answers to many
basic questions. Does your dad know what your
mom wants if she has a stroke and requires heroic
effort to sustain her on life support? Does your mom
know what your dad wants? Do you know where
they keep all their important papers? Do you know
where they bank? I could go on and on but you
get the idea. Perhaps your dad would see the
wisdom of telling you his "plans" so you could
"help" your mom implement them if he goes
first. This would give you a chance to get a
discussion going. I think you should prepare a
list of critical questions and slip them into the
discussion as opportunity arises.

Good luck,

Charlie
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 02:32 PM   #24
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

I kinda like you John. You're a free spirit!

Chuck doesn't get it.

Without being disrespectful, you are your dad.

That's meant to be a compliment.

In other words......he ain't gonna take your advice.
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 03:02 PM   #25
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Quote:
I kinda like you John. You're a free spirit!

Chuck doesn't get it.

Without being disrespectful, you are your dad. *

That's meant to be a compliment.

In other words......he ain't gonna take your advice.
Yes this irony was not lost on me either.

It really does not matter what the facts are, he's not going to listen. Just like John
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 03:22 PM   #26
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Thanks again one and all. My Dad won't go anywhere,
even for a free meal. He will not even go out to
family gatherings any more. They (Mom and Dad)
have given me info (verbally) about what they want
and don't want, where the keys are to everything,
various records, who should get what "stuff" etc.
That's about it.

Re. the Zipper and Cut-Throat remarks, yes I can see the
irony also, except my father is just stubborn and
hassle averse, whereas I truly believe I am smarter
than just about everyone else. This is a critical difference
In my case, galloping egomania, in his just old age
and intransigence.

A brief segue into Zipper's earlier comment about
my "Ayn Rand crap" coming home to roost. I saw on
the nightly news quite a few "blue state" folks are
moving to Canada or at least considering it. I am happy
to see them go and hope they are happy with their new homes. Here is the key for Zipper and others who
like to point out the People's Repuiblic of Canada advantages in health care
and social services. For someone with my politics,
living in Canada would be unthinkable. Bottom line:
in spite of the terrible tumult and trouble which may lie ahead, I would rather deal with it myself right here than live
under a government like Canada's. Sometimes I can barely stand it here. Canada would be impossible. Why, the gun laws alone would rule it out for me.

JG
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 03:34 PM   #27
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Quote:
under a government like Canada's. Sometimes I can barely stand it here. Canada would be impossible. Why, the gun laws alone would rule it out for me.
But the fishing alone would be worth it! :P I caught my Biggest Steelhead in British Columbia!

I don't hunt anymore, but there are more animals running around in Canada than anywhere else on the Planet!
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 03:54 PM   #28
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Humm... Remember when we were kids and the parents didn't really want to talk about the birds and bees? They left interesting books where they know we would see and read them.

Consider the same approach. Go to a book store and see what you can find. Then 'accidentally' leave it behind when you visit.

Another approach is to defer to his life experiance, engage your Father in a discussion of your own estate (aka, end of life) planning. Show him what you are considering and why. You can easily do that because you want him to know what arrangements you have made just in case the unexpected happens. This is where you can introduce the book, ask him if there are details in the book you may have overlooked. One clause that will light up their face is a provision that if you and your kids are killed in a common disaster that a trust is formed to provide for the parents.
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 04:04 PM   #29
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

I've tried leaving reading material behind. However,
discussing my own planning is a really good idea.
It may not move them to action, but it can't hurt
and is non-threatening as we are talking about what
I've done and not what they should do. The timing
for this good also as I am going in next week to have
a real attorney work on my will/trust stuff. I've been
doing my own will for years but I keep discovering things
that aren't adequately covered. My spouse is pushing this and I agree with her that I should spend some
money and get it right.

Thanks for the idea Brat.

JG
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 05:13 PM   #30
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Perhaps you have seen the new redrawn North American map John.
It was a cartoon showing the "blue states" and Canada as The United States of Canada.

The red states are called "Jesus Land".
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 05:59 PM   #31
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Hi Zipper! Had not seen the "redistricting".
Works for me

JG
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-10-2004, 06:52 PM   #32
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

To the poster who asked about the state that sued a child to support a parent: Oregon, about 20 years ago. I had a manager who was (forgive my Yiddish) a "handler". He complained that the State sued him for support of his mother who was on welfare and would not consider his church tithe as an "expense". The good Christians we are/were told him that charity began at home- no sympathy there.

What may have happened is that the mother & son tried a do-it-yourself Medicaid two-step (my boss was not the most forthcomming). OTOH the State may have concluded that the son had plenty of income and that the taxpayers should not let him neglect his mother.

In either case, it is a good example of the fact that an Elder Law Attorney's advise is valuable.
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-11-2004, 10:28 AM   #33
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Quote:
To the poster who asked about the state that sued a child to support a parent: Oregon
Thank you.

Quote:
In either case, it is a good example of the fact that an Elder Law Attorney's advise is valuable.
Sounds like good advice. Medical costs today can quickly drive almost anyone into bankruptcy.
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-13-2004, 03:27 PM   #34
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Even if you can't get your parents to want to meet with a lawyer, I was glad I contacted one who specialized in elder care by myself. Then, when there was a crisis, and I needed to get durable power of atty, I called the lawyer and between the two of us persuaded my mother to sign it. Then you're not showing up out of the blue looking like some child looking to get your hands on their money.

I think there comes a point when you just have to take over certain things because they need the help. You can't always get agreement, but if it is the right thing to do, you have to judge which is more important: not to offend or to fix a problem.

The whole situation has been an incentive to me to get all my affairs in order. I'm just about to do the last piece - getting a POA - I can understand the discomfort of letting go. I just keep telling myself, I picked the person because I trusted her, so there is no need to fear. Actually, since it isn't family, I think it is easier (I sympathize with all the people who have siblings to deal with).
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-13-2004, 04:03 PM   #35
 
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

As I posted previously, I think I will have to wait for a crisis before getting a POA, or taking similar steps.
I am "somewhat" educated by my previous
consultations, etc. Hopefully my estranged brother
will not be a problem. He can be a PITA but I still
love him.

As far as getting my affairs in order, in 2 days I am
rewriting my will for the umpteenth time. I am doing it mainly to make my spouse as secure as possible and
to avoid hassle for my children. Can't afford to spend a
lot so it will be a test for the attorney I've selected.
Beyond that, doubt I will get a lot more organized than
I am. It was my New Year's resolution for 20 years
and I never got it done.

JG
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-13-2004, 06:14 PM   #36
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Was catching up on my reading.. came across an article in Forbes that discussed many of the issues mentioned in this thread. The subject was trusts in estate planning. The pub was less than 30 days old. Highly recommended.
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C'mon, Brat, quit teasing & give us a clue.
Old 12-14-2004, 05:45 AM   #37
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C'mon, Brat, quit teasing & give us a clue.

Quote:
Was catching up on my reading.. came across an article in Forbes that discussed many of the issues mentioned in this thread. *The subject was trusts in estate planning. *The pub was less than 30 days old. *Highly recommended.
If it's so highly recommended, then how 'bout an article title or an author or the date of the issue. There's plenty on Forbes' website and it's not that easy to separate the wheat from the chaff...
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-14-2004, 06:35 AM   #38
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Quote:
As *far as getting my affairs in order, in 2 days I am
rewriting my will for the umpteenth time. *I am doing it mainly to make my spouse as secure as possible and
to avoid hassle for my children. *Can't afford to spend a
lot so it will be a test for the attorney I've selected.
Beyond that, doubt I will get a lot more organized than
I am. * It was my New Year's resolution for 20 years
and I never got it done. *

JG
Ok John,
Maybe you can't change the situation for your parents but you CAN change yours. I think it sucks to know you will be putting people you love through great difficulty at a time in their lives that is already painful. Everything should be spelled out and also should be talked about before the fact. Remember no one knows how they are going to go or when. If you're lucky you'll be hit by a bus and within minutes be walking thru the Pearly Gates (oh yeah, this is JG, well some kind of gates ) but that doesn't happen often. Your family needs to know your wishes. Get a durable POA when update your will. And then after the first of the year, talk to all your children and your wife.

Also, if you're a paper pack rat(my Mom had receipts going back years for things like utility bills) clear out the crap.

Judy
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Forbes article
Old 12-14-2004, 08:38 AM   #39
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Forbes article

OK gang here is where I found the article: Forbes 2005 Investment Guide. It has no pub date but it does say in fine print on the bottom right $4.99, "Display until March 14, 2005". Starting on page 230 in the section Taxes & Estates is an article "Trust, But Verify".

The section headings are:
Talk to your kids-and parents
Watch those living trusts
Pick your trustee carefully
Include a removal clause
Comparison shop
Require mediation

Because this is a current article Forbes may charge a couple dollars to read it off their website. If you are really thrifty, it may be available at your local library.
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?
Old 12-14-2004, 10:05 AM   #40
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Re: Aging parents - What to do?

Thanks, Brat. Here it is online; Forbes' annoying "free" registration is required but it doesn't cost money.

http://www.forbes.com/investmentguid.../1213/230.html
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