Aliens R-U-N-O-F-T here

[calmloki]

Oh dear. Tonight the little town of Willamina has it's town council arguing the merits of a proposed law to have the police insist that people produce evidnce of citizenship. Stopping people solely to insist on their papers. No papers, deportation process gets started. Probably designed to slow the influx of Irish to the area. This should end well. To the town's credit, support for the proposed law is far from unanimous.

In unrelated news, a Sweet Home resident has developed a twist on the classic game of Life, the new game of Redneck life. Winner is the one who finishes the game with the most teeth.

Oregon , my Oregon.

 

[chinaco]

Illegal immigrants hurt small towns.

Cost of School, Cost of health care (hospitals), not tax base...

The immigration laws should be changed. I am not for amnesty. But I would be OK with granting green cards to workers.

 

[Walt34]

This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think all the unemployed white people should be aggressively pressed into service taking up all the available jobs. Then the illegal aliens wouldnt have any reason to come here.

So tell me...what'd be easier...getting the handful of sloths on everyones block to get to work picking fruit, cutting lawns and changing diapers or securing the borders, tracking down the illegal immigrants and finding a way to get them all out of the country?

When does counteracting lazy become more problematic than stamping out opportunism?

Sounds to me like a great segue to form a new government agency as an adjunct to the unemployment and welfare groups.

 

[FinallyRetired]

Better get ready for a budget and tax increase. Our town is doing a similar thing, and has proposed an additional $14M over five years to hire extra cops to check immigration status on anyone they stop.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Fourteen mil? Heres another idea then...put that money into subsidizing the employers who use illegal aliens at ultra cheap hourly rates to do lousy jobs...turn that peach picking job from a $1 a basket to a $10/hour job!

Lets attack this problem at the source!

I do see the appeal in creating even more bureaucracy and layers of government to service the problem though. And who can argue with driving the price of peaches to $6-8 a pound!

In the interests of full disclosure, I should point out at this juncture that I have my own peach tree and therefore am insulated from the market.

 

[calmloki]

This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.

The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.

 

[Walt34]

The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop.

If that's the proposal - and I haven't read the proposed law - it's flat-out a violation of the 4th Amendment and has no chance.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

That right already went out the window...

NewsMine.org - supreme court backs police on showing ID.txt

They cant demand ID without probable cause of suspicious behavior, but the SC determined that refusing to show ID creates an air of suspicion and therefore probable cause.

 

[calmloki]

That right already went out the window...

NewsMine.org - supreme court backs police on showing ID.txt

They cant demand ID without probable cause of suspicious behavior, but the SC determined that refusing to show ID creates an air of suspicion and therefore probable cause.

Here's the article - the video is what i saw last night: Willamina city leaders considering an 'illegal alien-free zone' | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | Local & Regional

Good to see the Supremes were divided in your link.

 

[bright eyed]

The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.

they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.

 

[calmloki]

they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.

like a yellow arm band or maybe a star? Haven't heard the results yet, but really doubt the proposed law went anywhere, though the tv poll numbers were disheartening.

 

[Walt34]

Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.

But it is a further narrowing of the definitions and removes one of the thousands of ambiguities remaining in constitutional law. Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic" I think a court would dismiss that. One would hope.

 

[REWahoo]

YouTube - the 2009 job market

 

[HFWR]

they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.

I was thinking a scarlet letter. Or maybe lamb's blood...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.

Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.

I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.

But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.

Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic"

Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.

Clearly I havent thought all of this through.

 

[calmloki]

Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.

I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.

But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.



Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.

Clearly I havent thought all of this through.

Que? Willamina, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders 93% non-Hispanic Anglo as opposed to 60% here. Independence, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news Having 10 times the Hispanics hasn't destroyed the town yet. Now a flood of Canadiens with their Ehs' and aboots could be pretty scary. Probably take the good logging jobs from our local choker setters and hi-line riggers and force them to sell off their corks.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yeah, next thing you know they'll be designing stamps or something.

Not sure about the rest of what you said, but I'm certain something about it was just a little bit dirty...

 

[Walt34]

Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.

What can I say? Every occupational group has a few that the pros wish had chosen another line of work. All I know is that I did the best I could to go by the book as much as humanly possible, and never arrested anyone for not having ID.

 

[Scrapr]

calmoki


I'm pretty sure that Scapoose/St Helens/Columbia County has a law much like what is happening in Willamina

Do you live there or in the area?

I grew up in McMinnville. We used to go to Willamina to drink & drive (in the 70's)

edit: just saw that you are in Independence.

 

[calmloki]

calmoki


I'm pretty sure that Scapoose/St Helens/Columbia County has a law much like what is happening in Willamina

Do you live there or in the area?

I grew up in McMinnville. We used to go to Willamina to drink & drive (in the 70's)

edit: just saw that you are in Independence.

Graduated from Sheridan High school in between McMinnville and Willamina back in '67.

 

[Caroline]

Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illegal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better.

lol -- that reminds me of a road trip I took with Papa (4th generation Texan of German descent) and Mama (Irish citizen / green card holder).

Down near the Texas / Mexico border we were stopped by a border patrol agent who told us he was just doing vehicle checks and asked breezily: "you're all citizens, right?"

"Oh yes," we said -- since Mom had been here for over 40 years we didn't even think about it, and he didn't check. A couple of miles down the road we realized we'd got a pass because we were caucasian.

So, Calmoki, it appears that cops can already stop you at will, at least in the border states (and here in Ca. with sobriety checkpoints). What's more, experienced officers seem as prone to assumptions as the rest of us and could end up stopping a lot of brown folks / letting a lot of white folks slide by... or, in the alternative, they set up checkpoints and stop EVERYONE so as not to be accused of bias.

Either way, start your trip extra-early if you want to arrive on time!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sure Walt, theres good guys and bad guys. I think the point I was making is that a lot of people presume theres a set of rules that the majority of available law enforcement folks go by that assures that a law abiding citizen can go about their business free of interference by the police. Somewhere between the "9/11 screamers" and the hiring ramp ups that have called for going outside of former acceptance limits to meet headcount, this is really not the case anymore.

So heads up folks. You can indeed have your comeuppance the next day at a cost, but you had best perform any trained monkey tricks that are requested of you if accosted.

BTW, the bottom of the story in my case is that the county used to reimburse the local town jails $40 a night for putting people up and not bringing them to the county lockup. So the unofficial rule was to check the headcount a little before midnight and if it wasnt at full capacity, to go round up some likely suspects. Seems after that was reported to the local newspaper the practice was curtailed.

There were, by the way, a hell of a lot of apparently very deep LBYM hispanic guys in the jail with me. I didnt check them for green cards. I'm betting the police didnt ask them if they wanted to speak to the consulate from their countries consulate at the time of arrest either...

So thats what became of an offsetting fee setup for managing arrested persons, many of which may have been actual citizens with real rights.

Imagine how it all works out when its financed to the tune of $14-15M for a town, rather than $40 per head per night. Better make sure you have your birth certificate and passport with you, else you might be deported to Sweden despite your protests that you're not from there.

You know how the system works Walt...nobody wants to be the supervisor that reports to the chief that the number of tickets written went down in the last month, that the number of arrests and convictions dropped, that the headcount in the jail was low, or that a weak number of illegals were rounded up. The answer is likely the same: Surely there must have been a few people breaking the law we didnt work hard enough to catch, or at least a mouthy white guy we could have picked up?

 

[chinaco]

Quite a bit of rhetoric and strong feelings on all sides of the Illegal Immigrant situation.

The differences of opinion are often backed up with some facts and valid points of view. The problems seems to be finding a balanced and reasonable solution.

I am not for making illegal immigrants citizens because of principle (they are here illegally). But issuing green cards or some sort of seasonal work permit for work probably makes sense.

CFB has a point. Once they are legal, unless the government passes some special rules for certain types of immigrant temporary labor, wages will go up and affect prices.

So perhaps this new temporary worker program should not have a minimum wage... (like restaurant workers). However, using tax payers money to subsidize their health care, education, etc. is not a good idea either. Perhaps these business people who employ them should be responsible for their coverage or the Mexican government should pay for those services if they are needed in the US... maybe the business/farmer and the Mexican government can share the cost.

If the burden just winds up on the US tax payer.... that does not seem fair.

 

[kathyet]

The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.

Doubt they would need to stop many cars, all they need to do is go to Home Depot parking lot, certains corners in the industrial areas, and most of your garden shop sidewalks, to name a few places...that would keep them busy for quite some time..

The sad thing is if they just really secured our borders and did the things that are already on the law books like enforcing the laws...... the problem wouldn't be quite as bad. Of course if your making lots money off these illegals you have a lot of clout, you also don't care about the problems it causes every one else.

Kathyet