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Aliens R-U-N-O-F-T here
Old 03-27-2008, 09:49 PM   #1
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Aliens R-U-N-O-F-T here

Oh dear. Tonight the little town of Willamina has it's town council arguing the merits of a proposed law to have the police insist that people produce evidnce of citizenship. Stopping people solely to insist on their papers. No papers, deportation process gets started. Probably designed to slow the influx of Irish to the area. This should end well. To the town's credit, support for the proposed law is far from unanimous.

In unrelated news, a Sweet Home resident has developed a twist on the classic game of Life, the new game of Redneck life. Winner is the one who finishes the game with the most teeth.

Oregon , my Oregon.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:32 AM   #2
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Illegal immigrants hurt small towns.

Cost of School, Cost of health care (hospitals), not tax base...

The immigration laws should be changed. I am not for amnesty. But I would be OK with granting green cards to workers.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:24 AM   #3
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This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:05 AM   #4
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I think all the unemployed white people should be aggressively pressed into service taking up all the available jobs. Then the illegal aliens wouldnt have any reason to come here.

So tell me...what'd be easier...getting the handful of sloths on everyones block to get to work picking fruit, cutting lawns and changing diapers or securing the borders, tracking down the illegal immigrants and finding a way to get them all out of the country?

When does counteracting lazy become more problematic than stamping out opportunism?

Sounds to me like a great segue to form a new government agency as an adjunct to the unemployment and welfare groups.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:11 AM   #5
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Better get ready for a budget and tax increase. Our town is doing a similar thing, and has proposed an additional $14M over five years to hire extra cops to check immigration status on anyone they stop.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:16 AM   #6
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Fourteen mil? Heres another idea then...put that money into subsidizing the employers who use illegal aliens at ultra cheap hourly rates to do lousy jobs...turn that peach picking job from a $1 a basket to a $10/hour job!

Lets attack this problem at the source!

I do see the appeal in creating even more bureaucracy and layers of government to service the problem though. And who can argue with driving the price of peaches to $6-8 a pound!

In the interests of full disclosure, I should point out at this juncture that I have my own peach tree and therefore am insulated from the market.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:18 AM   #7
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This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.
The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:15 PM   #8
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The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop.
If that's the proposal - and I haven't read the proposed law - it's flat-out a violation of the 4th Amendment and has no chance.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:06 PM   #9
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That right already went out the window...

NewsMine.org - supreme court backs police on showing ID.txt

They cant demand ID without probable cause of suspicious behavior, but the SC determined that refusing to show ID creates an air of suspicion and therefore probable cause.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:46 PM   #10
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That right already went out the window...

NewsMine.org - supreme court backs police on showing ID.txt

They cant demand ID without probable cause of suspicious behavior, but the SC determined that refusing to show ID creates an air of suspicion and therefore probable cause.
Here's the article - the video is what i saw last night: Willamina city leaders considering an 'illegal alien-free zone' | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | Local & Regional

Good to see the Supremes were divided in your link.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:12 PM   #11
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The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.
they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:25 PM   #12
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they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
like a yellow arm band or maybe a star? Haven't heard the results yet, but really doubt the proposed law went anywhere, though the tv poll numbers were disheartening.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:30 PM   #13
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Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.

But it is a further narrowing of the definitions and removes one of the thousands of ambiguities remaining in constitutional law. Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic" I think a court would dismiss that. One would hope.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:32 PM   #14
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:42 PM   #15
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they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
I was thinking a scarlet letter. Or maybe lamb's blood...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:04 PM   #16
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Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.
Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.

I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.

But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.

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Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic"
Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.

Clearly I havent thought all of this through.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:48 PM   #17
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Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.

I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.

But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.



Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.

Clearly I havent thought all of this through.
Que? Willamina, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders 93% non-Hispanic Anglo as opposed to 60% here. Independence, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news Having 10 times the Hispanics hasn't destroyed the town yet. Now a flood of Canadiens with their Ehs' and aboots could be pretty scary. Probably take the good logging jobs from our local choker setters and hi-line riggers and force them to sell off their corks.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:51 PM   #18
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Yeah, next thing you know they'll be designing stamps or something.

Not sure about the rest of what you said, but I'm certain something about it was just a little bit dirty...
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:03 PM   #19
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Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.
What can I say? Every occupational group has a few that the pros wish had chosen another line of work. All I know is that I did the best I could to go by the book as much as humanly possible, and never arrested anyone for not having ID.
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Old 03-29-2008, 03:44 PM   #20
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I'm pretty sure that Scapoose/St Helens/Columbia County has a law much like what is happening in Willamina

Do you live there or in the area?

I grew up in McMinnville. We used to go to Willamina to drink & drive (in the 70's)

edit: just saw that you are in Independence.
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