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03-27-2008, 08:49 PM
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#1
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
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Aliens R-U-N-O-F-T here
Oh dear. Tonight the little town of Willamina has it's town council arguing the merits of a proposed law to have the police insist that people produce evidnce of citizenship. Stopping people solely to insist on their papers. No papers, deportation process gets started. Probably designed to slow the influx of Irish to the area. This should end well. To the town's credit, support for the proposed law is far from unanimous.
In unrelated news, a Sweet Home resident has developed a twist on the classic game of Life, the new game of Redneck life. Winner is the one who finishes the game with the most teeth.
Oregon , my Oregon.
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03-28-2008, 01:32 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
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Illegal immigrants hurt small towns.
Cost of School, Cost of health care (hospitals), not tax base...
The immigration laws should be changed. I am not for amnesty. But I would be OK with granting green cards to workers.
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03-28-2008, 06:24 AM
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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03-28-2008, 08:05 AM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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I think all the unemployed white people should be aggressively pressed into service taking up all the available jobs. Then the illegal aliens wouldnt have any reason to come here.
So tell me...what'd be easier...getting the handful of sloths on everyones block to get to work picking fruit, cutting lawns and changing diapers or securing the borders, tracking down the illegal immigrants and finding a way to get them all out of the country?
When does counteracting lazy become more problematic than stamping out opportunism?
Sounds to me like a great segue to form a new government agency as an adjunct to the unemployment and welfare groups.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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03-28-2008, 08:11 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,322
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Better get ready for a budget and tax increase. Our town is doing a similar thing, and has proposed an additional $14M over five years to hire extra cops to check immigration status on anyone they stop.
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03-28-2008, 08:16 AM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Fourteen mil? Heres another idea then...put that money into subsidizing the employers who use illegal aliens at ultra cheap hourly rates to do lousy jobs...turn that peach picking job from a $1 a basket to a $10/hour job!
Lets attack this problem at the source!
I do see the appeal in creating even more bureaucracy and layers of government to service the problem though. And who can argue with driving the price of peaches to $6-8 a pound!
In the interests of full disclosure, I should point out at this juncture that I have my own peach tree and therefore am insulated from the market.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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03-28-2008, 09:18 AM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
This is a result of people's frustration with the Federal govt. not doing what it said it would do, control the borders. NH is contemplating the same thing. Should have been done 20 years ago.
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The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.
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03-28-2008, 11:15 AM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki
The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop.
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If that's the proposal - and I haven't read the proposed law - it's flat-out a violation of the 4th Amendment and has no chance.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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03-28-2008, 12:06 PM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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That right already went out the window...
NewsMine.org - supreme court backs police on showing ID.txt
They cant demand ID without probable cause of suspicious behavior, but the SC determined that refusing to show ID creates an air of suspicion and therefore probable cause.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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03-28-2008, 01:12 PM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki
The Oregon wrinkle is that the police could stop someone just to check papers - without even a hint of cause like a rolling stop. Now I'll grant you, i could probably get an illeagal alien at least 25% of the time based on the looks of a car load of people driving by and that an experienced officer could probably do much better. But being asked to produce papers based on my looks would rankle - kinda un-American feeling. kinda police-state like.
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they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
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03-28-2008, 02:25 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
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like a yellow arm band or maybe a star? Haven't heard the results yet, but really doubt the proposed law went anywhere, though the tv poll numbers were disheartening.
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03-28-2008, 02:30 PM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.
But it is a further narrowing of the definitions and removes one of the thousands of ambiguities remaining in constitutional law. Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic" I think a court would dismiss that. One would hope.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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03-28-2008, 02:32 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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__________________
Numbers is hard
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03-28-2008, 03:42 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
they could just make them sew a patch on their clothes so as not to inconvenience the police.
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I was thinking a scarlet letter. Or maybe lamb's blood...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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03-28-2008, 04:04 PM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
Ah - it's in accordance with a Terry stop. While those circumstances fall far short of Probable Cause, it is not random. There have to be surrounding circumstances giving reason for the stop even if the person being asked for ID is unaware of those circumstances.
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Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.
I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.
But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.
Quote:
Now if they try to expand that to include "looking Hispanic"
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Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.
Clearly I havent thought all of this through.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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03-28-2008, 05:48 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 7,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny
Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.
I'm betting it doesnt go so well on those less financially fortunate.
But the lesson was learned. Do what the police say, regardless of your constitutional rights, or you'll spend a night in jail and then spend $1000 getting your revenge the next day.
Hmm, I'd think in Willamina Oregon there might be a bigger problem with illegal canadian aliens than mexicans. But I guess there are hispanic canadians.
Clearly I havent thought all of this through.
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Que? Willamina, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders 93% non-Hispanic Anglo as opposed to 60% here. Independence, Oregon (OR) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news Having 10 times the Hispanics hasn't destroyed the town yet. Now a flood of Canadiens with their Ehs' and aboots could be pretty scary. Probably take the good logging jobs from our local choker setters and hi-line riggers and force them to sell off their corks.
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03-28-2008, 05:51 PM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Yeah, next thing you know they'll be designing stamps or something.
Not sure about the rest of what you said, but I'm certain something about it was just a little bit dirty...
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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03-29-2008, 12:03 PM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny
Truth be told, there really doesnt need to be anything non-random about it. I was stopped on the street while taking a walk and asked to produce identification. When I refused I was promptly arrested and tossed in jail. The excuse produced the next day when my lawyer called was that there was a reported attempted break-in in the area and I was a suspect. No such police report for the alleged break-in could be produced. Everyone became suddenly sorry when they found out I was about to shove an expensive lawyer up their backside.
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What can I say? Every occupational group has a few that the pros wish had chosen another line of work. All I know is that I did the best I could to go by the book as much as humanly possible, and never arrested anyone for not having ID.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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03-29-2008, 02:44 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,708
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calmoki
I'm pretty sure that Scapoose/St Helens/Columbia County has a law much like what is happening in Willamina
Do you live there or in the area?
I grew up in McMinnville. We used to go to Willamina to drink & drive (in the 70's)
edit: just saw that you are in Independence.
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