Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-16-2007, 04:44 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by bow-tie View Post
Huh?

If I'm paying more tax for the fuel I'm burning, then it's a use tax, and I'm ok with that. I just don't want someone telling me I can't have the vehicle, because it's old, which doesn't necessarily mean it's a gross polluter that needs to be crushed and made into a new one.

There are two things that an old car does in this context... it uses more gas and it pollutes more per gallon of gas used than a new car... just raising the price of gas only addresses one of these pollutants..
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-16-2007, 06:37 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Montana
Posts: 2,753
Back when I was a part of Mega-Corp, we looked at TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). Greenies should do this too. Any new car takes a lot of energy to produce and contributes a lot of greenhouse gases.

My avatar car is 50 years old but was an 'economy car' when it was built. It produces 49 HP and gets slightly more than 25MPG, about the same as a gas guzzler today. If I was forced to replace it with a new one, the energy (read CO2) required would be many times the pollution the call spits out since it doesn't do a lot of miles per year. While this is an extreme example, TCO matters.
__________________

__________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate conclusions from insufficient data and ..
kumquat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 07:27 AM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
I agree that it probably makes no sense to replace a working unit with a new one just to save energy/money/environment. There may be exceptions, I would expect them to be rare.

Esp if the old unit gets re-used.

I see articles that say to replace your working Dishwasher, fridge, freezer, etc with new high eff models to be green. I really doubt it. Replacing a an old 50-60% furnace with a 92% furnace probably makes sense. That can be a pretty quick payback.


=ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2007, 06:39 AM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
Jeb-NY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North Coast of NY
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb View Post
CA is already doing this for older cars with allowable emissions that are higher than those of newer cars. I think that the state will pay $600 per car.

My understanding is that it is a pretty efficient program from the point of view of emission reduction/$ spent. For example I think that you can reduce pollutants a lot more by spending a $ retiring old polluting cars than you can by spending a $ on reducing emissions from an oil refinery.
MB
Problem with the CA program is a lot of the cars they are buying are driven very few miles. The pollution credit is then used at an inflated value by industry to keep from actually reducing their pollution.

Jeb
__________________
Jeb-NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2007, 07:55 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
Any new car takes a lot of energy to produce and contributes a lot of greenhouse gases.
This is a very good point, and the reason why it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a new efficient model faster than your would buy a new car anyways.
However, if you are replacing a car, that idea is pretty much a non-factor as what ever type of new car you buy is going to use co2 in its production.
So if you are going to get a new/different car, that is the best time to consider higher efficiency.
__________________
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
(Ancient Indian Proverb)"
Zathras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 09:24 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,071
Merkin fake science--at it again:

Pacific Institute
__________________
Compounding: Never forget! Never not remember!
greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 09:31 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg View Post
Merkin fake science--at it again:

Pacific Institute
Greg, I think we bashed that report in an earlier thread. There was not even enough 'science' there to do it the honor of calling it 'fake science'. Just a bunch of random numbers thrown together to come to the conclusion the author wanted. No refs, nothing.


Problem is, these things do get repeated as 'fact'. Oh well.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 09:31 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Quote:
...with its claim that a Hummer H3 SUV...
Quote:
...the average Hummer H1...
Quote:
...the public should ignore its conclusions...


__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.