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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-27-2006, 06:20 PM   #41
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

I do worry that a new offensive on the "war on terror" or a manufactured crisis, like the Iran nuke issue being brought to a boiling point, along with all the gerrymandered districts making incumbents all but appointed for life, will make it very difficult to get any change in Congress. I heard a story on NPR about the time DeLay won the Republican Primary. They were interviewing the constituents in his district. When asked about his legal/ethical troubles, they all replied, "yeah but look at all the <pork> he brought to the district! Highway Such-and-such wouldn't be here, or the one-armed paper hanger museum!". Everybody hates Congress, everybody loves their Congressman.

In fact, in my own district, home of disgraced Randy "Duke" Cunningham, sentenced to 8 years for blatant bribe taking, poster boy for scum, the real race is for the Republican primary, because it's a forgone conclusion it will stay red, despite all of that. In fact, I had three flyers in my mailbox from hopefuls, to a man, do you know who they blamed for all our troubles? Liberals, for undercutting the war effort! Oh, and the bad info on Saddam and Iraq? Caused by budgets for intel and defence being underfunded by above mentioned evil Liberals. Shall I go on? I'm not making this up!
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-27-2006, 06:23 PM   #42
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I do worry that a new offensive on the "war on terror" or a manufactured crisis, like the Iran nuke issue being brought to a boiling point
umm............
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-27-2006, 06:31 PM   #43
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Laurence, shouldn't that post be in "Does anyone worry etc."
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-27-2006, 11:06 PM   #44
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
US Democracy has always been evolving - its taken us 200+ years to get to this imperfect democracy we now have. We have gone through so much ugliness to get here.... it is amazing this dynamic institution that Jefferson, Adams, Franklin,etc came up with, yet we have that painful history....

In the well meaning imposing of democracy in areas of the world that don't have a tradition of democracy and the bill of rights - where the dynamic is complicated by unique culture, religion, the suppression of women, etc. - we are seeing a version of democracy that isn't in the present American image.

We shouldn't expect it to catch up with our version anytime soon.
We could see democracy spread further in the world and be dealing with democratic counties that behave in ways that we abhor.
The big mistake some Western societies make, and mainly so the US, is that their vision or version of democracy is the best thing since sliced bread.

Not so.

For example, some fifty years ago, I so happened to be living in one of the world's greatest democracies. This nation, at the time it had some 350 million souls, had been ruled by the Brits for some 200 plus years but had recently achieved independence.

It was so bloody democratic that in one of their provinces they managed to elect a communist state government.

How ironic!

(This was in the days when communist was a dirty word. Anyone remember Senator McCathy?)

The nation was India and the province was Kerala.

So a word of caution when trying to export one's vision of democracy. It isn't always what the locals want. Or need.

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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-28-2006, 07:08 AM   #45
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Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

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Originally Posted by Eagle43
I am not a pacifist but I do have a dim view of what's happening.* As Colin Powell told him, "you break it, you own it."*I believe you do your best NOT to go to war, but when you decide to go, then get it done brutally and quickly.* *I heard (on NPR) a Brit talk about supporting us on Iraq.* This guy (can't remember his name) said the Brits thought we were going to install another pro-USA dictator.* All this nonsense about democracy is just eyewash, after the WMDs didn't show up.* That being said, you will note in my original post that I did not say I liked what will happen when ole Karl gets going, but something is going to happen.* Spin is the name of the game.* If Rove*doesn't or can't work his magic, then look for GWB to become a very lame duck.* We have some experience with Mr. Rove here in Texas and he believes in winning.* Also, if the Republicans lose the Congress, the Democrats might try impeachment.* I say might because they will remember how the Rs took it on the chin by impeaching Bill.* The difference now is that Bill had high ratings so the Senate couldn't vote to convict.* GWB will have a tougher time if impeached.
Seems like a reasonable summary of what has gone on. I would quibble in the following areas:

- Um, the pResident is a lame duck. He is just going to be taking up space for the next two years and hoping like hell it doesn't end in impeachment.
- Unlike the nonsense with Clinton's impeachment, people might actually care about the stuff Bush could be charged with (lying to congress, manipulating intelligence, spying on ordinary Merkins in apparrent direct conflict with our laws, etc.).
- Rove can try all he likes, but I think the jig is up. Once the R's lose one or both houses, iit will really be game over.
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