Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-23-2006, 12:10 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnehaha
Posts: 2,375
Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

That's a quote from President Bush.

This poor guy in Afganistan converted to Christianity and now faces the death penalty.

Police arrested Abdul Rahman last month after discovering him in possession of a Bible during a custody dispute regarding his two daughters.
A prosecutor has raised questions about his mental state and a cabinet minister said he would not be executed if he were found to be unstable.
"I'm not an apostate. I'm obedient to God but I'm a Christian, that's my choice," Rahman told the hearing. He also said he was not mentally ill and would defend himself.

http://tinyurl.com/fukle

The discussion about religious groups trying to use the Minnesota state constitution to ban gay marriage, made me think of what can happen when any particular group has too much power or when innocent people just going about their lives have to live/die under intolerance.
__________________

__________________
MinnesotaEats - www.goodfoodmsp.com
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-23-2006, 12:24 PM   #2
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 784
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

So much for the theory that Bush went about crusading to colonize the middle east with Christian puppet regimes.........
__________________

__________________
Cool Dood is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 08:12 AM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Dood
So much for the theory that Bush went about crusading to colonize the middle east with Christian puppet regimes.........
Oh, I still think that a plausible case can be made for that as the intention, so long as you keep in mind the staggering incompetence of these clowns.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 08:28 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnehaha
Posts: 2,375
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Oh, I still think that a plausible case can be made for that as the intention, so long as you keep in mind the staggering incompetence of these clowns.
That sums it up nicely. They aren't the funny clowns, but sad clowns that makes me wish they'd go away sooner than Jan 2009
__________________
MinnesotaEats - www.goodfoodmsp.com
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 08:38 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
That sums it up nicely. They aren't the funny clowns, but sad clowns that makes me wish they'd go away sooner than Jan 2009
You and me both. I think the quickest way would be a democratic congress (both houses) followed by impeachment hearings.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 08:59 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnehaha
Posts: 2,375
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You and me both. I think the quickest way would be a democratic congress (both houses) followed by impeachment hearings.
I heard that was in the works if the Dems get control. They did it to Bill for lying about having sex (character issue) why not do it to W for lying to the world about reasons for going into Iraq and not having a plan for getting the peace and getting out (character flaw).
I'll take sexual misconduct by my elected officials anyday over what has happened the last 3 years and what looks like maybe another 3 or so.
__________________
MinnesotaEats - www.goodfoodmsp.com
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:05 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Unfortunately, if you dont shootspray the next 5 guys in succession with bird pellets, you get pretty much the same thing.

As I said from the beginning, we went to Iraq because Saddam was holding on by his fingernails, so tentatively he pretended he might have WMD's to keep his neighbors from invading. Unfortunately for him, that gave us the reason to invade. Had we not gone in, the Iranian mullahs would have been running Iraq in a couple of years. If we leave now, same results and we'll be back over there in 3-5 years after Israel bombs the Iranian nuclear facilities and the 300,000ish Iranian army starts moving to push the Israelis into the ocean.

As far as instilling a democracy there or in Afghanistan, history says that the region will not sustain such a political construction as there is no clear majority and the minority groups like to kill each other a lot until a strongman makes them stop and toe the line.

Did we have to go? Probably. If we like that "oil" stuff. A consolidated Iran/Iraq military would be roughly the same size as our own, and while nowhere near as well equipped, they're on home soil.

Can we leave? Probably not ever. As long as we need oil and have political interests in the region (like Israel) we'll probably have to maintain a significant force there. Heck, we had a hell of a lot of soldiers in Korea and Germany and they werent all trying to kill each other.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:06 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,459
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Much as I despise Bush and abhor what he's done, *I'm not sure dragging the country through another impeachment and the resultant media circus is the way to go. *

It would be stooping to their level, and we would deteriorate even further into petty childish squabbling. *I would be embarrassed by the speeches we would have to listen to from both sides.

I'm in favor of (figuratively) emasculating him and his administration by having a Democratic Congress step up and run the country the country in a way we can be proud of. *The best we could hope for would be an irrelevant White House for the next few years.
__________________
Sheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:15 AM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnehaha
Posts: 2,375
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryl
Much as I despise Bush and abhor what he's done, I'm not sure dragging the country through another impeachment and the resultant media circus is the way to go.

It would be stooping to their level, and we would deteriorate even further into petty childish squabbling. I would be embarrassed by the speeches we would have to listen to from both sides.

I'm in favor of (figuratively) emasculating him and his administration by having a Democratic Congress step up and run the country the country in a way we can be proud of. The best we could hope for would be an irrelevant White House for the next few years.
Sheryl - Those are good points. I would also rather have an alternative -
Something cleaner and quicker - like a coup - Colin Powell/Chuck Hagel can replace Bush/Cheney( :P) they can work with the congress to get our house back in order.
__________________
MinnesotaEats - www.goodfoodmsp.com
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:24 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
Unfortunately, if you dont shootspray the next 5 guys in succession with bird pellets, you get pretty much the same thing.
While I confess that I wouldn't mind seeing them all "sprayed", I'd settle for a liberal distribution of Congressional subpoenas.

I would be perfectly happy to see the rest of the current occupant's term spent in impeachment proceedings, criminal investigations, etc. It couldn't possibly be worse than what we have been subjected to over the past 5 years.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:27 AM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,459
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Something cleaner and quicker - like a coup - Colin Powell/Chuck Hagel can replace Bush/Cheney( :P) they can work with the congress to get our house back in order.
Yes, at this point, a coup sounds like a good thing.
__________________
Sheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:30 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minnehaha
Posts: 2,375
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryl
Yes, at this point, a coup sounds like a good thing.
I just want to shout out to Homeland Security/FBI and the SS we're just kidding..hehheheheheheh
__________________
MinnesotaEats - www.goodfoodmsp.com
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:32 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Come on...george would just declare martial law, 'temporarily' set aside the elections, suspend the constitution and say its because people who hate america want us to be less safe and he cant allow the terrorists to win because they might have WMD's. Then Dick could shoot someone just to further make the point.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:34 AM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 784
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Wow, there's some deranged stuff in this thread... I stand by my diagnosis of BDS.....
__________________
Cool Dood is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:35 AM   #15
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
As I said from the beginning, we went to Iraq because Saddam was holding on by his fingernails, so tentatively he pretended he might have WMD's to keep his neighbors from invading. *Unfortunately for him, that gave us the reason to invade. *Had we not gone in, the Iranian mullahs would have been running Iraq in a couple of years. *If we leave now, same results and we'll be back over there in 3-5 years after Israel bombs the Iranian nuclear facilities and the 300,000ish Iranian army starts moving to push the Israelis into the ocean.
While I can believe that Saddam was bluffing his assets off, I've never ever heard of his reign or his country being in jeopardy (other than from U.S. intervention), most especially not from Iranian mullahs. *Can you provide any links on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Something cleaner and quicker - like a coup - Colin Powell/Chuck Hagel can replace Bush/Cheney( :P) they can work with the congress to get our house back in order.
I voted for Colin Powell, but I think that he's way too smart to get sucked back into the White House. *He spent an entire military career there and knows far too much about it to want to go back. *His military pension alone must be over $125K/year with lifetime COLA & medical-- not bad for a guy whose hobby is rebuilding old Volvos!

Now Michael Powell may be another story...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 09:40 AM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Let's just hope we get a Feingold-Murtha ticket to vote for next time.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-24-2006, 10:26 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
While I can believe that Saddam was bluffing his assets off, I've never ever heard of his reign or his country being in jeopardy (other than from U.S. intervention), most especially not from Iranian mullahs. Can you provide any links on this?
I'll get you some later. Grumpy baby right now. There is by no means any shortage of data, so some googles might give you better stuff than i'll come up with. Basically the iranian mullahs have been pressing their iraqi counterparts and followers for decades to overthrow the baathists. The turks have been periodically drooling for the past fifty years. Several constituencies within the country have attempted or were pondering separation/civil war. Since the first gulf war we've frittered away saddams military strength. He had a bunch of poorly trained soldiers that well filled the old joke after the first gulf war "iraqi rifle for sale, never used, dropped once". No operable air force.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-25-2006, 12:19 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I've never ever heard of his reign or his country being in jeopardy (other than from U.S. intervention), most especially not from Iranian mullahs. Can you provide any links on this?
Sorry, forgot about this yesterday amidst the mayhem that is baby.

This is a good jumping off point. I started reading about the interactions (good and bad) between iran, iraq, turkey, afghanistan, saudi arabia and israel (and a cast of thousands!)...about 25 years ago when I was required to register for the draft and it looked like I might be shooting at soviets over the heads of osama bin laden and his friend in afghanistan.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle9540.htm

Do further googling on "Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq".
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-25-2006, 12:22 PM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 784
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

Quote:
By Juan Cole

lollolollololololollololololololololol
__________________
Cool Dood is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style
Old 03-25-2006, 02:02 PM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 228
Re: Allowing Nations To Form Democracies In Their Own Style

(earlier)
>Something cleaner and quicker - like a coup - Colin Powell/Chuck Hagel can replace >Bush/Cheney( ) they can work with the congress to get our house back in order.

>Yes, at this point, a coup sounds like a good thing.* *

I think we've already been "couped." Twice. It was not a good thing.

And, as much as I hate to say it, being a US citizen and accostomed to freedom of speech, but I think you need to be very careful bandying terms like "coup" around on the internet. Remember, W and his henchmen don't need to worry about getting legal warrents any more in order to spy on citizens
__________________

__________________
LRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.