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Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-28-2005, 08:17 PM   #1
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Am I A Bad Person?

My children have encouraged and now as of last night taught me how to make copies of Netflix DVDs that I like - last night it was Bruce Springsteen in Barcelona. 8)
There is a part of me that says it's ok, just a personal copy, not for resale, etc. just like making a copy of a cd from the library is ok(thats legal right?)

Then there's the other part that says you are taking money out of the pockets of people like Bruce and Stevie and Clarence and helping to ruin the industry, leaving myself open for a visit by the FBI and setting a bad example for the kids for pete's sake.

Forum - I think I'm losing my ethical compass and need some advice.

I'm hoping you all say its ok!

Signed, DanTien
Petty Criminal?
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-28-2005, 09:11 PM   #2
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

You're paying Netflix around $14/month.

You're paying about $2 for the disk space required to store the image.

And you're paying about $0.50 for each DVD you burn for friends and family.

Spending that kind of money to rip a DVD should help alleviate the guilt somewhat.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-28-2005, 09:48 PM   #3
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

You are also saving the environment (no pesky packaging) from those new dvds. I think the FBI is busy elsewhere. Maybe we could send in the "Plunge Patrol".
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-29-2005, 10:19 AM   #4
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Dantien, I have a feeling that others on this forum may experience similar moral dilemmas from time to time


P.S. Never google bittorrent. If you do, it may change the way you watch TV.

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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-29-2005, 11:43 AM   #5
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Forum - I think I'm losing my ethical compass and need some advice.

I'm hoping you all say its ok!* *
Send me a list of your DVD holdings and I'll send you a list of my Bangkok software. We can trade!
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-29-2005, 11:45 AM   #6
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

DT needs a good spanking.* Bad boy!*

Wab: Where have you been I miss your posts!
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-29-2005, 12:45 PM   #7
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Thank you Forum - I knew I could come to you for help.

I feel better know after your reassurances and cube's spanking. My compass has found true north again.

Nords - forum tape DVD tree?
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 09:32 AM   #8
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Whenever I have a netflix subscription, I usually copy the disks to our main pc and we watch them when we have the time. A few times i've made a permanent copy of something we really liked. I dont think we've ever watched the copy again and every one of them has shown up on hbo/starz/etc and a lot of them are airing on regular old tv.

So in other words, we can watch any of this stuff for free anyhow, its just the timing, some content edited for television or not, and the ads we're going to fast forward through anyhow.

Similarly, i'm pretty sure the music you're listening to and the live performances are running on 47,592,942 radio stations somewhere in the world and/or on some music tv stations somewhere at some point.

So its a little less stealing the content and a little more stealing the presentation opportunity time, along with associated advertising and content insertion/removal/alteration as far as I can see. Certainly not a LEGAL observation, just a practical one.

By the way, for netflix users...did you know that they let you do a free one-time, one-month "upgrade" to the "8 out at a time" plan? Just upgrade yourself to the plan the day after they autocharge your credit card, and downgrade back to your old plan a day or two before they charge you the following month. They wont let you do it again after that, its sort of intended to work this way to allow you to "test drive" a higher plan.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 10:37 AM   #9
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Interesting how sanguine people are about copying works protected by copyright. I suppose it is a combination of many factors, like how easy it is, little chance of being caught, and a feeling of no harm-no foul.

If you want to feel a little squeemish about it, check out the penalties for copyright infringement: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 11:15 AM   #10
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Whenever I have a netflix subscription, I usually copy the disks to our main pc and we watch them when we have the time. A few times i've made a permanent copy of something we really liked. I dont think we've ever watched the copy again and every one of them has shown up on hbo/starz/etc and a lot of them are airing on regular old tv.
Being a netflix member myself, isn't the whole point of netflix so that you can keep the movies as long as you want until you do have time to watch them? (then you subsequently send them back for more)

I only watch them when i have time too, but i just let them lie around until i'm ready for them, because netflix doesnt have late fees.

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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 11:18 AM   #11
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Sometimes it takes us months to watch the movies. If I couldnt "delay" the viewing, I wouldnt bother subscribing. I'd just rent it from blockbuster or wait until it came out on HBO or one of the other premium channels.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 01:24 PM   #12
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Interesting how sanguine people are about copying works protected by copyright. I suppose it is a combination of many factors, like how easy it is, little chance of being caught, and a feeling of no harm-no foul.
I thought making personal copies of purchased media used to be considered Fair Use.

Of course, making copies of rentals might not be quite as fair.

And then there's that pesky DMCA....

And my lawyer BIL seems to think that making *exact* copies of digital stuff is just plain wrong.* **Shrug.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by cube_rat
Wab:* Where have you been* I miss your posts!
I miss you too, rat!* *I've been bad.* *Distracted by other digital delights.* *So many bits, so little time.* (Preemptive retort: no, not pr0n.* Well, not exclusively.)* *
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-30-2005, 04:35 PM   #13
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Interesting how sanguine people are about copying works protected by copyright. I suppose it is a combination of many factors, like how easy it is, little chance of being caught, and a feeling of no harm-no foul.*
I'd call it more "frustrated & angry" than "sanguine". Then there's the feeling of being ripped off my a megamonolithic industry that cares little or nothing for the consumer. Otherwise nobody would want a copy of Windows XP or the latest music.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 11:24 AM   #14
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

The music and movie people like to operate in a microcosm where they measure the number of times something was copied and that directly and linearly effects their bottom line. What they refuse to measure is overall economic effect of creating awareness and enthusiasm for their products. I dont and wont bore with the overwhelming volume of evidence that sharing music causes more music purchasing to occur, in nearly direct proportion to the volume of sharing.

In my case, I did buy a lot of cd's and dvd's over time...hundreds of both. Havent bought a dvd or cd in years. Probably wont. Availability or non availability of renting, borrowing or stealing wont affect that.

Most movies are awful. I have them pumped into my house for a monthly fee over hundreds of satellite channels. Most music sucks. I have ~70 channels of cd quality, commercial free satellite radio pumped into my house. Fiddling with plastic disks is a pain in the butt. Managing my own trove of digitized media was a pain, and has been pointed out, can get expensive in terms of resources and complexity to deliver it.

Its just too easy to turn on the tivo and pick a movie and watch it, or flip on one of the XM stations in the flavor I'm in the mood for and listen to it.

The lack of ability to make copies or gain access to copyrighted works wouldnt in any way result in my rushing out to buy a movie or cd.

I wish the music and movie studios would spend as much time and money they've committed to prosecuting teenagers and grandmothers and influencing politicians and television manufacturers on making more than 10% of movies suck less, and putting more than 1 or 2 good tunes on a whole CD.

I think the people have spoken; not with the heart of thieves but by showing what they think the product is really worth...nearly nothing.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 04:18 PM   #15
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Martha:

From one lawyer to another, I need to share the little secret that a matter that is addressed in the United States Code - or Federal Statutes ("USC") does not translate into consistant or predictable enforcment.* *(USC is Not the University of Southern California ) Notwithstanding selective enforcement there are entire sections of state and federal laws and regulations (such as the immigration laws) that go largely ignored. Making a few copies of a rented CD for home use will get you in about the same legal hot water as removing the "do not remove under penalty of law" tags from your new mattress.* (Talk about hypocrasy.* I would like the media wonks to share their tax compliance with all of us before they demand draconian copyright enforcement!)
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 04:30 PM   #16
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX
From one lawyer to another, I need to share the little secret that a matter that is addressed in the USC does not translate into consistant or predictable enforcment.
I'm pretty good at interpreting lawyer-speak, and I am in complete agreement with you LEX. USC just might not be #1 after the Rose Bowl.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 06:00 PM   #17
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Gee I remember when they came out with Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock's version of "It takes two." I sat in my friends bedroom while we dubbed his copy of the tape with one of the then new "hi-speed dubbing" boom boxes.
Those where the good 'ol days when it wasn't a big deal and you didn't have to worry about the Feds or USC. My how times have changed :
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 06:11 PM   #18
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arif

Those where the good 'ol days when it wasn't a big deal and you didn't have to worry about the Feds or USC.
Well, the Longhorns shouldn't have to worry about the Feds, but unless they can manage to score 40 points, they're going to have their hands full with USC.
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?
Old 12-31-2005, 06:27 PM   #19
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Re: Am I A Bad Person?

"Legalize Freedom, Dude "
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