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Old 03-18-2013, 02:52 PM   #21
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Maybe the thing to do is get a buyer's agent in that community, and have she/he do the legwork on finding you potential places, and deal with the listing agent. I really like having a buyer's agent. We did that for our last home purchase, and our last boat purchase.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:55 PM   #22
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A few comments that might or might not be valid where you live...

In Texas, all agents 'work' for the seller... even is you talk to one and they show you a lot of properties, they still legaly work for the seller...

About putting a card down when you see a property... I was told that it was common practice so the homeowner knew that people had been inside the house... I would not say the RE agent was trolling for the guy renting... but who knows...

As for other offers.... sometimes there are other offers, but there are conditions etc. that might not materialize.... IOW, some base it on them getting financing.... and the RE agent thinks might not happen...

Another thing that I have heard about (this from watch Selling NY) is that the agent will leave the listing up even after it is sold!! When someone sees it online they call the agent and they will say 'there is an offer on it, but I can show you something else' and snag a new client....


I agree that you should not care about what you hear... it should not make a difference to you in what you think the property is worth and how you bid.... if there is another bid and they are higher than you, so be it... there is more RE to be had...


There is one comment I can remember when I bought my first house... we were at closing and the RE agent lied to the closer... I said I would not sign some paperwork until things were done right... I was told that the contractor that was hired (paid for by the seller) had the right to 'fix' the problem.... When I told the closing lady if she would work with someone who lied to her... she said "I do it everyday".....
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #23
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Maybe the thing to do is get a buyer's agent in that community, and have she/he do the legwork on finding you potential places, and deal with the listing agent. I really like having a buyer's agent. We did that for our last home purchase, and our last boat purchase.
If this falls thru which it might, that is exactly what I will do Sarah!
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:26 PM   #24
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I think you are right, that it is a common strategy and that is why it irritates me. I upped my offer so it would be taken seriously, it was where I was prepared to go during negotiations but that leaves me no wiggle room. Or I guess I should say, I don't want it above the offer price. It's a thumbs up or down offer at this point.
Even though I had a buying agent, my agent kept asking me to put in an offer, no matter how low (and it was low). If anything, this made us delay putting in our offer. It seems like you let the "other offer" idea push you to make a higher offer. I would argue that upping your offer doesn't make it any more serious that any other number you chose. ANY offer is serious when it comes to real estate. I wouldn't let anyone pressure you into changing the offer you originally intended. After all, this is probably the most expensive purchase you'll make in your lifetime.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #25
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A few comments that might or might not be valid where you live...

In Texas, all agents 'work' for the seller... even is you talk to one and they show you a lot of properties, they still legaly work for the seller...

About putting a card down when you see a property... I was told that it was common practice so the homeowner knew that people had been inside the house... I would not say the RE agent was trolling for the guy renting... but who knows...

As for other offers.... sometimes there are other offers, but there are conditions etc. that might not materialize.... IOW, some base it on them getting financing.... and the RE agent thinks might not happen...

Another thing that I have heard about (this from watch Selling NY) is that the agent will leave the listing up even after it is sold!! When someone sees it online they call the agent and they will say 'there is an offer on it, but I can show you something else' and snag a new client....


I agree that you should not care about what you hear... it should not make a difference to you in what you think the property is worth and how you bid.... if there is another bid and they are higher than you, so be it... there is more RE to be had...


There is one comment I can remember when I bought my first house... we were at closing and the RE agent lied to the closer... I said I would not sign some paperwork until things were done right... I was told that the contractor that was hired (paid for by the seller) had the right to 'fix' the problem.... When I told the closing lady if she would work with someone who lied to her... she said "I do it everyday".....
It wasn't "just" putting her card down. I should have elaborated. The renters were there and she had them write their name, address and phone number down for her.

Wow...is all I can say regarding the response the closer gave you. I believe her don't you? Speaks volumes huh?
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:28 PM   #26
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Unfortunately I think you really have to look out for yourself when buying a property--the saying is "buyer beware," never "seller beware."

We have never sold a house, having bought ours back when a handshake was almost considered a contract, but I was with DD when she sold her condo. Sitting there with the selling agent and his assistant, I hear numerous phone calls back and forth as they negotiated a price with the "buyers agent" (whose fee was determined by the selling price!). The buyers agent told DD's agent to keep negotiating above the buyers' counteroffers as he shared exactly what the buyers had told him their ceiling was and had no qualms about sharing that information and more with DD's agent, including all the financial details the buying family had shared with him over the time they looked at properties and what the agent had found their net worth to be.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:40 PM   #27
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Unfortunately I think you really have to look out for yourself when buying a property--the saying is "buyer beware," never "seller beware."

We have never sold a house, having bought ours back when a handshake was almost considered a contract, but I was with DD when she sold her condo. Sitting there with the selling agent and his assistant, I hear numerous phone calls back and forth as they negotiated a price with the "buyers agent" (whose fee was determined by the selling price!). The buyers agent told DD's agent to keep negotiating above the buyers' counteroffers as he shared exactly what the buyers had told him their ceiling was and had no qualms about sharing that information and more with DD's agent, including all the financial details the buying family had shared with him over the time they looked at properties and what the agent had found their net worth to be.
Yup, I have made that mistake too. Eventually some information leaked out in conversation during the last 2 previous summers of working with the agent I don't want to work with anymore (different state from this one).

I also think that is why she kept wanting to show me and sent me listings way above my stated price range. If they think you have a nickel....beware.

Not this time. Have only shared the financials with funds available and that are needed to close.

I'm taking tonight...to "sit on it". Want to read every word of the contract and the condo docs before I give her any go ahead.

Thanks to every one so far for responses. Your own personal experiences help.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #28
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It wasn't "just" putting her card down. I should have elaborated. The renters were there and she had them write their name, address and phone number down for her.

Wow...is all I can say regarding the response the closer gave you. I believe her don't you? Speaks volumes huh?
Yep, much different than what I thought...

Yes on the closing lady... I think there are some honest RE agents out there, just like some honest car salesmen.... it just seems that finding one is harder than it should be....
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:11 PM   #29
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Unfortunately I think you really have to look out for yourself when buying a property--the saying is "buyer beware," never "seller beware."

We have never sold a house, having bought ours back when a handshake was almost considered a contract, but I was with DD when she sold her condo. Sitting there with the selling agent and his assistant, I hear numerous phone calls back and forth as they negotiated a price with the "buyers agent" (whose fee was determined by the selling price!). The buyers agent told DD's agent to keep negotiating above the buyers' counteroffers as he shared exactly what the buyers had told him their ceiling was and had no qualms about sharing that information and more with DD's agent, including all the financial details the buying family had shared with him over the time they looked at properties and what the agent had found their net worth to be.

This is exactly what I was talking about... in Texas there IS no such thing as a buying agent... there is an agent that is working for the buyer, but by law they work for the seller and are SUPPOSED to tell the seller everything you say...

I think the only way you can have the agent on your side is if you sign a separate agreement and pay for them yourself....

I am not surprised on what you wrote... in fact, I am more surprised that more people do not know this....


Edit to add.... my dad was a RE agent for a few years back in the 60s and 70s... it was a tough way to earn money...

Adding more... http://ezinearticles.com/?Buyer-Agen...ed?&id=6841904

Looks like you can get an agreement now, but have to make sure you get it in writing....
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:14 PM   #30
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Unfortunately I think you really have to look out for yourself when buying a property--the saying is "buyer beware," never "seller beware."

We have never sold a house, having bought ours back when a handshake was almost considered a contract, but I was with DD when she sold her condo. Sitting there with the selling agent and his assistant, I hear numerous phone calls back and forth as they negotiated a price with the "buyers agent" (whose fee was determined by the selling price!). The buyers agent told DD's agent to keep negotiating above the buyers' counteroffers as he shared exactly what the buyers had told him their ceiling was and had no qualms about sharing that information and more with DD's agent, including all the financial details the buying family had shared with him over the time they looked at properties and what the agent had found their net worth to be.
I lied routinely to everyone except bankers when I was making offers.

I can't cheat them; but they can make a pretty good shot at cheating me. I was paying cash, so my qualification consisted in showing that I had cash consistent with my offer. So I tranferred exactly that much cash to a separate account, and told the agent that not only would I not go higher, I could not, as I had no more money and I would not qualify for a mortgage. (Which may have been true under the prevailing conditioons at that time.)

This enabled me also to get the seller to pick up quite a bit of my closing costs, because she did very much want to sell in that soft market, and it appeared that I was completely tapped out.

Real estate seems to be a friendly blood sport, much like serious poker.

Ha
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:42 PM   #31
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Hi all. Am very annoyed with the real estate process. This past week-end, my husband and I found a condo we were willing to make an offer on.

Isn't it odd that it is not until we attempt to make an offer that the agent tells me, "I spoke with the other agent and she said there is another offer coming in and it too is for cash".
I had a similar experience last weekend. I went to an open house across the street from Frank's house. The house had been on the market for just two days. I liked it well enough, but the price was pie-in-the-sky ridiculous. I might have considered contacting my realtor and making a lowball (realistic) offer anyway, but the seller's agent conducting the open house said she already had an offer. Huh? That early? Houses are not selling quickly here, at all. It just makes no sense.

Needless to say, I did not make an offer. On the way out, I whispered to Frank that I'd bet it will still be on the market this summer and at a lower price. If it is, then I'll reconsider.

Frank thinks it might be some kind of funny business. Maybe they want to sell it to a relative (extremely, extremely common here) but at a low price, and for property tax purposes want to document that it isn't worth any more than that because they got no other offers? Or who knows what.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #32
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All's fair in love, war and marketing. Do not allow your emotions to take over. Offer what you think the condo is worth, period, and let the chips fall where they may.

Having recently sold a 4 Plex in Vegas in Feb, which is a very hot market, let me explain how this could have happened.

I deliberately priced it pretty high when I put it on the market in Dec, 18% above what I bought it for in July. I was not trying to flip, just decided that owning a property which attracted poor tenants was more trouble than it was worth.

During the 45 days it was active I got 8 offers, 5 offers were decent offers above my July price, 3 were crazy low ball offers ~20-25% below my asking price. I did use the existence of the other offers to negotiate a higher price, telling the buyers we truthfully we had a cash buyer, eventhough I had no intention of accepting the other offers.

So from the perspective of the first buyer (who in hindsight I probably should have accepted since it was within a $1,000 of what ultimately got).
There was a a couple of week between we ended negotiations and it went into escrow, and then it fell out of escrow only to be sold a several weeks latter to a 3rd serious buyer.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:30 PM   #33
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All's fair in love, war and marketing. Do not allow your emotions to take over. Offer what you think the condo is worth, period, and let the chips fall where they may.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:42 PM   #34
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Heh - HaHa reminds me of the car dealership line: "buyers are liars".

We buy and sell and look at a fair amount of property; lately the flippers are making offers on a dozen or so places at a time and then backing out most all of the contracts in favor of the best deal they can sew up. It's not pretty and it pisses me off, but it's the nature of the game these days, along with "strategic defaults", which also irk me no end.

We just got back from an Arizona trip where we drove up to an amazing location rimface dome home we had made an all cash offer on in 2010. Bank opted for another offer and then it waffled around for months and months until just before we drove down to the La Quinta California place we bought instead, when the agent called me to say the bank would now accept our offer. I'm ashamed to say I responded poorly. Still have sour grapes over that place and a few others, but its worthwhile remembering that its easy to buy and one can repent at leisure. Zen property - if it's meant to happen it will...
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:49 PM   #35
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Just made it thru the contract and the 1982 condo docs. Some problematic issues. Enough so that I think we are backing off. Didn't want to bore you all with the details but I can if you'd like!.

Here's an example: This place is made of stucco (EFIS). In order to get the EFIS inspection I have to get the permission of all other unit owners. This is a 4 unit condo.
I'm aware of the problems with EFIS and the replacement cost and was taking that into consideration with my offer. I know because my mother's condo was made of EFIS and they went thru a special assessment, assessing every unit owner $25,000. This one will be more like $50,000 since there are only 4 unit owners. But there are no plans in writing to replace it which is problematic for me as well. My agent said to me, "Well they say there are plans to do it". I said, "Anyone can say anything". What matters is what is in writing."

Another ex: Condo docs say units are to be built with 3 bedrooms, living, kitchen, rec room etc. City records say 3 bedrooms. MLS Listing has 4 bedrooms. Funny how that rec room turned into a legal bedroom. There is a sink, a toilet and a very tiny pantry thingy I guess they call a closet. This rec room is not even on the same floor as the main living level. Rec room on 1st. Main condo on 3rd. Yes it's awkward. Other owners rent it out for $800/mth as an efficiency.
Still listing it as 4 bedrooms when the 4th bedroom is 2 levels removed from the condo seems a little sketchy to me.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:05 PM   #36
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sheehs- I am not familiar with EFIS, but I think the 4 unit condo is in itself a risky idea. I promised myself to buy in a minmum 80 unit building. Most of these right here are very nice and very well managed, but I could not find one in my price range so I went with a 10 unit building. The units are all owned by reasonable young to middle aged people (well, I am only charitably middle aged, and there is one other retiree.) Even though they are fine people, and even the renters are top drawer, it is hard to get them to spend money for things that I know from experience as a homeowner will bite us one day. Part of the problem is the retiree, an excellent man, but living essentially on SS and a very small pension. Though he could not sink projects alone, people are mindful of his needs.

@calmloki-I referred to it as lying, but I actually see it more as guarding my cards. Anyway, if I can't lie to car dealers and Realtors, I will lose my hard won skills.


Ha
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #37
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Actually, there has been studies that a realtor would rather sell your house than sell it at the best price. It was in the book "Freakonomics" written by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt.

It basically comes down to the fact that and extra $10k selling a house usually nets the selling realtor about $125 (5% commission split between selling and buying agency and each agency splits 50% with realtor, so on a 5% commision the selling broker makes (5%/4) or 1.25%*$10k=$125)

A selling realtor would rather have you take an offer today for $10k less, than have to work for longer for $125.
+1

The real estate agent's incentives are certainly not aligned with their clients.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:30 PM   #38
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sheehs- I am not familiar with EFIS, but I think the 4 unit condo is in itself a risky idea. I promised myself to buy in a minmum 80 unit building. Most of these right here are very nice and very well managed, but I could not find one in my price range so I went with a 10 unit building. The units are all owned by reasonable young to middle aged people (well, I am only charitably middle aged, and there is one other retiree.) Even though they are fine people, and even the renters are top drawer, it is hard to get them to spend money for things that I know from experience as a homeowner will bite us one day. Part of the problem is the retiree, an excellent man, but living essentially on SS and a very small pension. Though he could not sink projects alone, people are mindful of his needs.

@calmloki-If I can't lie to car dealers and Realtors, I will lose my hard won skills.


Ha
Thanks Ha. I definitely agree and can see where fewer owners might actually create some uncomfortable circumstances.

The exterior of the building needs a total redo. The condo unit itself is an estate sale as the person passed away. All flooring needs to be torn out and replaced, windows are suspect..etc. Which is why my offer reflected the price of those items. It has huge potential 2,600 square feet on one level all bay water front windows. But if the exterior is going to continue to be a negative...I'm not interested. I don't want to argue with people to keep the property up.

Also something I have not seen before was the extra $295 Broker Fee "presumably because of their requirement to keep records for 3 years and the cost of providing identity theft procedures". What The Brokerage already gets part of the commission. Just more creative charges to get more......
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:43 PM   #39
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Every single real estate transaction I have been involved in has involved this kind of chicanery by agents or worse, except for one agent. Once that happened, all further transactions have gone to her, as well as anyone I know that I could make a recommendation to. I dred eventually moving out of the area and having to deal with the usual agent ethics again.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:43 PM   #40
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Even though I had a buying agent, my agent kept asking me to put in an offer, no matter how low (and it was low). If anything, this made us delay putting in our offer. It seems like you let the "other offer" idea push you to make a higher offer. I would argue that upping your offer doesn't make it any more serious that any other number you chose. ANY offer is serious when it comes to real estate. I wouldn't let anyone pressure you into changing the offer you originally intended. After all, this is probably the most expensive purchase you'll make in your lifetime.
Dimsumkid...you are right. I did and shouldn't have. As I was pissed off, it was in the back of my mind. Since I knew I would go at least that high I went ahead and went that high, knowing it was going to be a thumbs up/thumbs down decision. But it left me no wiggle room. Meaning I was not going higher than that.

Hopefully it is a mute point as I don't think we are interested any longer.
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