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Old 03-18-2013, 09:48 PM   #41
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Every single real estate transaction I have been involved in has involved this kind of chicanery by agents or worse, except for one agent. Once that happened, all further transactions have gone to her, as well as anyone I know that I could make a recommendation to. I dred eventually moving out of the area and having to deal with the usual agent ethics again.
I understand that. It is a real pressure cooker. I have come to detest the process so much that as soon as the first attempt at this stuff happens I want out.
I have only experienced these things at resort areas. Buying my home 20 years ago was a breeze compared to these recent experiences.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:06 PM   #42
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Always do your research on historical sales results in the area you are interested in. Compare sales prices for houses of similar size and quality in the recent past. That should give you an indication of the price you should be paying and make your offer accordingly.

If seller does not accept your price, then walk away. Paying more than the market price for a house you like is only for those for whom money is not an issue.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:10 AM   #43
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My first thought was that this kind of game playing by some realtors could have had an influence on jacking prices up and helping (maybe in just a small way) the housing bubble we've recently been through. If so then I don't have much sympathy for them having a difficult time earning a living once it burst.

I have only purchased 2 houses. Interestingly enough both were part of an estate. The first was bought through a closed bid. I had been left vacant for over a year. The property was overgrown and the house was in need of a lot of work. Even though I had the highest bid the lawyers kept slow timing for months after. It turned out that they had someone that they wanted to get the house but had a lower bid and hoped I would cancel if they made me wait long enough (stinking lawyers). It was to be my first house (a fixer upper but all I could afford). I was just out of grad school with only a few dollars in my pocket and no experience in the ways of the world but I was pi$$ed. Eventually I made enough noise that they backed off from their game and I got the house.

Five years later I found a house a few blocks away that had been vacant for a year or more and also needed a great deal of work. This time it worked out much better. I contacted the realtor that listed the house. I told her I would also list my house with her, she could sell it for what ever she could get, then using the money from the sale I would buy the other house but I would not pay a penny more than $X in addition to the money from the first house. Good deal for her. She would get 2 full commisions and only had to make one sale on a home that was fixed up and less expensive - great incentive. My cards were on the table and there would be no deviations. She arranged for an open house the next week and 3 days later it was sold.

Sometimes things work out. Over the years I've learned to think a plan through first then make it understood (but in a nice way) that I stand my ground. I also don't take a smile from a stranger to mean I may not be threatened in some way. People are the only animals that will twist the meaning of a smile.

Cheers!
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:47 AM   #44
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Always do your research on historical sales results in the area you are interested in. Compare sales prices for houses of similar size and quality in the recent past. That should give you an indication of the price you should be paying and make your offer accordingly.

If seller does not accept your price, then walk away. Paying more than the market price for a house you like is only for those for whom money is not an issue.
Thanks jags. I always do this and am typically all over the assessor's data bases for value history, assessments and recorded sales as well as listing sites like realtor.com for what is on the market and for what price. I also make calls to assessor's offices in the two locations I have looked at. I do my best to try to come to a price I am willing to pay rather than the list price. In some cases it is close to list and in others it's not.
For this one, I was initially going to offer $100k less than list because of the condition. I knew what the building value was based on assessment and deducted from the side of the fence.
2,900 sq feet including the rec room for all floors as they really are nasty, future facade replacement, appliances and kitchen cabinets (they painted them and have made a mess of them), windows (couldn't get handles back in), external door doesn't shut...etc. It adds up. Thinking I might have been a bit high of this I went up by half.
Sales in the area definitely justify the price but the condition is off-putting. Still, I saw potential and can't beat what looks like 30 plus linear feet of direct bay views.
I'll reassess today after getting some sleep...and slowing the process down.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:05 AM   #45
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Many real estate agents are liars and snakes who are principally out for themselves. Just keep this in mind in dealing with them.

We had one guy who made the hard sell to list our home pitching how what he did was unique and how he had buyers in the wings. We didn't list with him but decided to do FSBO. Later the buyer of our house, who needed to sell her house did list with him (the guy was a friend of her ex). What we observed is that the guy just chased a lot of listings, sold very few himself but just waited for other agents to sell his listings so he could collect 1/2 a commission. A real snake.

P.S. Her house never sold - not even an offer - so our sale to her fell through.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:06 AM   #46
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My first thought was that this kind of game playing by some realtors could have had an influence on jacking prices up and helping (maybe in just a small way) the housing bubble we've recently been through. If so then I don't have much sympathy for them having a difficult time earning a living once it burst.
Sometimes things work out. Over the years I've learned to think a plan through first then make it understood (but in a nice way) that I stand my ground. I also don't take a smile from a stranger to mean I may not be threatened in some way. People are the only animals that will twist the meaning of a smile.

Cheers!
I think everyone from real estate agents to appraisers to banks had a hand in that financial crisis, not to mention our government, the SEC and the GSA's (Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae). There was ton of money coming into the U.S. and it had to find a place to land. 55 trillion in CDO's (collateralized debt obligations/derivatives) in a shadow banking system that was unregulated so I'm still not sure it is over. Ridiculous bubble. Real estate barely appreciated from 1990's thru 2002ish. The run up was fast and furious and some sellers feel they are entitled to still capture that mass appreciation. Ive seen some sad stories as I'm sure we all have. People buying at the height of the market only to get nailed and underwater by several hundreds of thousands of dollars in these resort areas.

People are the only animals that are ABLE to turn a smile into a twist.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #47
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Many real estate agents are liars and snakes who are principally out for themselves. Just keep this in mind in dealing with them.

We had one guy who made the hard sell to list our home pitching how what he did was unique and how he had buyers in the wings. We didn't list with him but decided to do FSBO. Later the buyer of our house, who needed to sell her house did list with him (the guy was a friend of her ex). What we observed is that the guy just chased a lot of listings, sold very few himself but just waited for other agents to sell his listings so he could collect 1/2 a commission. A real snake.
That is indeed one way they do it.

I have yet to be able to "see" the elevator in this building because as my agent said, the list agent didn't want to bother. Ive asked several questions and am told, "she doesn't know, go check the condo docs". (it is not in the condo docs).

Speaks a little to what you just said. She has the listing and presumably doesn't care who buys it. It means the same money to her either way. Working harder to answer questions doesn't make her any more money.

p.s. The elevation inspection certificate and my being able to ride on it was a contingency.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:16 PM   #48
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The way to make money in RE is to get a lot of listings and wait for them to sell.

When buying, if anyone talks about another offer, I say I will not compete. So far so good. Often the other offers just vaporize. If not, great.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:21 PM   #49
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.....When buying, if anyone talks about another offer, I say I will not compete. So far so good. Often the other offers just vaporize. If not, great.
I've always assumed that the "other" offer is b.s. and made an offer based on what I am willing to pay and told the agent that is my offer, if the other offer is better then the seller should take it.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:40 PM   #50
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I have seen some real disasters caused by EFIS (which is fake stucco). To replace it is very expensive and with only 4 owners in the condo development the odds of getting all to agree to do it are slim. EFIS failure usually causes mold. My husband says that EFIS can work but owners need to maintain the drain system that was installed (or not installed as can happen). Unfortunately many owners think that siding maintenance is only a matter of paint. They don't even maintain caulking (which has an effective lifespan of only a few years).

If its EFIS, walk.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:43 PM   #51
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Many real estate agents are liars and snakes who are principally out for themselves. Just keep this in mind in dealing with them.

What we observed is that the guy just chased a lot of listings, sold very few himself but just waited for other agents to sell his listings so he could collect 1/2 a commission. A real snake.
I'm a full-time Realtor - maybe a little unfair to decide that all Realtors are liars just because you had a bad experience?

As for your 2nd paragraph - to me that Realtor is much more ethical than the alternative. Your assumption makes it sound like it would be better if the listing agent were to represent the buyer on a deal too. Personally, I think it's a much better arrangement for the buyer and seller to be represented by their own agents so that they can get the full benefit of someone negotiating on their behalf.

Plus, there are 15,000 agents in the Twin Cities. Doesn't it make sense that the vast majority of buyers for a property are NOT going to come from the listing agent?

I'd be happy to answer anyone's real estate questions by the way.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #52
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I have seen some real disasters caused by EFIS (which is fake stucco). To replace it is very expensive and with only 4 owners in the condo development the odds of getting all to agree to do it are slim. EFIS failure usually causes mold. My husband says that EFIS can work but owners need to maintain the drain system that was installed (or not installed as can happen). Unfortunately many owners think that siding maintenance is only a matter of paint. They don't even maintain caulking (which has an effective lifespan of only a few years).

If its EFIS, walk.
I agree and as of noon today I told the agent I would not be putting in an offer. EfIS has as you say had terrible problems and it is not just on water front properties. Several in my town have replaced their facades too. It is terribly expensive to get off and replace with something else.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #53
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The way to make money in RE is to get a lot of listings and wait for them to sell.

When buying, if anyone talks about another offer, I say I will not compete. So far so good. Often the other offers just vaporize. If not, great.
Thanks kcowan. As you can see from my last post I have walked. This morning they were going to call for "best offer". Well...I had not put mine in so I bowed out. We will see how many remain because there are real issues with this property. The EFIS facade being probably the biggest. A HOA that has only $9,000 in reserve funds. Based on history it does not look like the other unit owners have put any money into it . That's all I can go on. Extrapolate that means they probably won't do so in the future. Great bay front views or not.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #54
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:52 PM   #55
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I'd have been quite nervous about the EFIS too. Personally, I would have passed.

In regards to multiple offers, at least here in the Twin Cities they are happening on a large number of deals. The number of active listings is at a 12 year low while sales are up which is driving up prices and lots of competing offers.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:52 PM   #56
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You would be amazed at the number of condo buyers who do not do their homework.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:12 PM   #57
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I'm a full-time Realtor - maybe a little unfair to decide that all Realtors are liars just because you had a bad experience?

As for your 2nd paragraph - to me that Realtor is much more ethical than the alternative. Your assumption makes it sound like it would be better if the listing agent were to represent the buyer on a deal too. Personally, I think it's a much better arrangement for the buyer and seller to be represented by their own agents so that they can get the full benefit of someone negotiating on their behalf.

Plus, there are 15,000 agents in the Twin Cities. Doesn't it make sense that the vast majority of buyers for a property are NOT going to come from the listing agent?

I'd be happy to answer anyone's real estate questions by the way.
Fishingmn, I hope no offense taken by this thread which started out by my relaying my own frustration with a couple of realtors in high traffic resort areas. I notice the quote above that you referenced did not say "all realtors". It stated "many".

While I think it is true most realtors take there jobs seriously, not sure you can convince me that all do, that there are not some unscrupulous actions going on, that they don't deliberately want to create a bidding war to drive up the price...etc. Because my experience in these areas says that those things are indeed true.

What would you say about the realtor who "drives" you to an appraiser who makes sure the appraisal comes in right on target EVEN when you have the data pointing out to him that he can also justify a lower price. EVEN when you are the one paying him. EVEN when this is not for a bank and you paid him to do an independent appraisal? Sure....he can justify it. But HE can also justify it the other way but chooses not to. EVEN when you tell them you have talked to the assessor's office and they unequivocably told you the new assessment would be $170,000 below the sales price and that assessment is based on comparable sales. Even when you tell him you have knowledge of 3 or 4 comp properties that sold for $150,000 less than this sales price within the last 6 months. And in fact that new assessment was $170,000 below the sales price. Thank goodness I called the assessor's office to get a feel for where the new assessments would come in . But how many buyers do that? They told me not many and those that do, do so typically after the sale and they are mad.

The natural logical conclusion to just this one little story is: "the realtor and this appraiser" work together to get the deals done regardless if it is the best interest of the client or not. Typically it is in their best interest. Period. No questions. Do they do so because they know the seller won't agree and they don't want to kill the deal? Maybe. But that is not suppose to be in their part of the equation.
That has been my experience. In these resort areas. Notice I did not say in all areas.
p.s. I know there are realtors that are very professional and do their jobs well, working in the best interest of the client. You sound like you are one of those!
Just wish I could find one of those in these areas I'm looking in! Perhaps I have not had the right realtor. ...
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:17 PM   #58
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You made the right decision!

Thanks Meadbh. I think so too!
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:37 PM   #59
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Many real estate agents are liars and snakes who are principally out for themselves. Just keep this in mind in dealing with them.
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I'm a full-time Realtor - maybe a little unfair to decide that all Realtors are liars just because you had a bad experience?
S/he didn't say all -- or even most -- just many, and IME (and DW's, who closed thousands of deals in her career as a real estate paralegal), and those of many (not most or all) posters to this thread, that characterization seems to fit many of them.

These observations/opinions in no way cast any aspersions on you personally or professionally.

Tyro
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #60
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Sheehs1 - In regards to your appraiser question, that does sound quite shady.

I'm not sure why a Realtor should have any relationship with an appraiser in the first place - I've never needed to recommend one. A large majority of homes are financed by a lender and the rules around lender appraisals have become very strict at implementing a wall between lending and appraising.

When I'm a listing agent I will try and leave comps for an appraiser to consider but there's no guarantee that they will use them.

It does sound like the agent in your appraisal case was not acting on good faith.

The only caution I would add is that county appraisers, lending appraisals and Realtor CMA's are often widely divergent for good reasons. County appraisals are often 6-18 months behind the market. Lender appraisals often are required to use like properties which may include lender owned or short sales. They are also very rigid about evaluating features and location. A Realtor CMA tries to estimate the current fair market value that a house will sell for. Those aren't always in line with each other.
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