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Old 07-09-2014, 11:12 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Calico View Post
To OP:


Hire the most experienced and toughest lawyer you can find. You have a lot of assets to protect.

I'd be willing to bet my life he will challenge the 2007 agreement, and I think you can expect things to get very ugly very soon. It won't matter how rational you are, or how many facts are in your favor.

Just let the lawyers deal with all of it. I don't understand why you would even want to have any direct contact or conversations with him. Given the behavioral history they won't be productive, and IMHO any contact just continues the unhealthy relationship model you have both been participating in for 22 years. You say you are ready to move on. The first step to that is cutting contact with him completely. You don't have any minor children you are co-parenting, so there is no real reason for you to have contact with him.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's all about the legalities from this point forward, and the lawyers are equipped to deal with that - you are not. Protect the assets you have built up over the years, cut the cord, and move on to better days. Any other path just prolongs the toxic effects of the relationship.

Good luck to you and your daughter.
I understand what you are saying Calico and thank you for the well wishes. He has been sending me emails. I have considered telling him to only communicate with me thru the lawyers. I suppose I am trying to keep legal fees down.
First I would like my money back if possible. Regarding that agreement. It was signed and notarized in a lawyers office. My current lawyer also reviewed it back in 2007 stating I had a legal agreement with all the necessary clauses.

Next, I'm reevaluating the lawyer I have. Why? Because I am not sure he is correct when he told me the assets my ex wasted were not marital according to the terms of the Post Marital Agreement. My thinking is that it is possible they were marital during the time of the marriage and reconciliations. This agreement comes into play ONLY with a separation and divorce. So I am thinking the nature of what he wasted thru gambling was indeed marital at that time.
So I am thinking i need another read on that clause.
Point to all of this is giving him a bit more time to pay off the loan. Then will rethink the lawyer possibly going for something due to his breach of gambling. In other words, while I have more assets than he does, I am not working and he has a viable business...so am thinking I shouldn't rush to give up anything that may be possible at the moment. He married me and adopted my daughter and made us fend for ourselves all this time. What I have was built up slowly over 22 years so it's not like I didn't not have struggles along the way. All forms.



I seriously think it would be darn difficult for him to get it thrown out. Challenge maybe which is simply an exercise in throwing money away to lawyers. But again angry people do irrational things.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:22 AM   #82
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I wouldn't bother worrying about what would inflame him further. You are just dragging it out. I'm sensing that the enabling/co-dependence mechanisms are still in place. This needs to be looked upon as a business transaction. Start the divorce ASAP. Don't deal with him directly. The loan you called is a separate issue. If he isn't paying you according the his legal requirements, you need to start foreclosure proceedings angainst him. Very possibly, you will need a real estate lawyer for this.

As for him wanting to modify the agreement, refer it to your divorce lawyer. From what it sounds like, you are the only one with significant assets that need to be protected. Any changes to the agreement can only be to his benefit. It is also only to his benefit to delay the divorce.

If you truly want a divorce, you need to stop the drama and just do it.
Not dragging this out. Unless he agrees to a different date, we have to wait 6 months before I can file.

Totally agree the note/loan is a separate issue. And yes, I can handle that separately.

Also agree I'm not modifying the agreement. Obviously he wants something.

Not trying to deal with drama. Believe me. If there was a way in this state to file now, I would. But state laws require 6 months. Perhaps i need to call another lawyer to double check or to see if I can start the filing now.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:25 AM   #83
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I support what 2B says. I am very concerned that you still want to deal with him directly. There is a danger that you will get sucked back in, or hurt more than is necessary. For your own sake, make a clean break, deal with the divorce and the loan as business transactions, and communicate only through your lawyer.
For both Meadbh and 2B. I hear you. I don't want to communicate with him directly. This communication from him just started yesterday so there hasn't been a lot. At this point however, I think you are both correct. Need to refer him to my lawyer. Regardless of fees.

Thank you both.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:29 AM   #84
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Not trying to deal with drama. Believe me. If there was a way in this state to file now, I would. But state laws require 6 months. Perhaps i need to call another lawyer to double check or to see if I can start the filing now.
One of your previous posts said he had agreed to starting the divorce immediately. He just needed to sign the paperwork. Have the lawyer send it to him.

My understanding is that he is effectively broke but has a viable CPA business that you think created marital assets that he spent in a way not allowed by your agreement.

Could he realistically pay you anything? Would he pay you anything if he had the money? Is it enough to drag this out indefinitely? Do you have "enough" without anything from him? Chasing after a settlement on your part will definitely run up the legal bills. A second opinion on your agreement may be money well spent; but if the lawyers are against taking action against him, you would be foolish to bother. Usually, a lawyer is always ready to start a legal fight.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #85
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sheesh1

Who knows maybe your husband thinks this is just another one of the dances you have done over the years. Rinse and repeat. Maybe he thinks you'll "get over it" "calm down". You are the one who knows if you are serious this time. Maybe on the day you get the divorce decree he'll say "Man, I didn't see that coming."

However, I can tell even when you say you are at peace the stress is still piling up. I would greatly encourage you to find a female friend to share your feelings with. This might be an anonymous forum, but you have given up a huge amount of privacy, especially in your last several posts. I can almost guarantee that 12 months from now, no matter how this turns out, you will look back at a few of these posts and wonder "What was I thinking when I posted that?"

No one here is judging you, it's not about that, everybody has sympathy and hopes you come to a good resolution. General details are fine for getting support and ideas. Protect yourself a little online with both emotional and financial details.

Good Luck from a fellow supportive forum member
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:34 AM   #86
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One of your previous posts said he had agreed to starting the divorce immediately. He just needed to sign the paperwork. Have the lawyer send it to him.

My understanding is that he is effectively broke but has a viable CPA business that you think created marital assets that he spent in a way not allowed by your agreement.

Could he realistically pay you anything? Would he pay you anything if he had the money? Is it enough to drag this out indefinitely? Do you have "enough" without anything from him? Chasing after a settlement on your part will definitely run up the legal bills. A second opinion on your agreement may be money well spent; but if the lawyers are against taking action against him, you would be foolish to bother. Usually, a lawyer is always ready to start a legal fight.
You are correct in your first paragraph. Yes he could pay me something. Do I need it? Probably not. And I agree chasing after something my not be worth it. Just wanted to "pause" and take some time to think about that a bit more. That's all.

I have a call into my lawyer to discuss the backdating of the physical separation and going ahead and sending divorce papers. He can handle the legwork for the judgement on the note at the same time. Keeps me from having to do it.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:41 AM   #87
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sheesh1

Who knows maybe your husband thinks this is just another one of the dances you have done over the years. Rinse and repeat. Maybe he thinks you'll "get over it" "calm down". You are the one who knows if you are serious this time. Maybe on the day you get the divorce decree he'll say "Man, I didn't see that coming."

However, I can tell even when you say you are at peace the stress is still piling up. I would greatly encourage you to find a female friend to share your feelings with. This might be an anonymous forum, but you have given up a huge amount of privacy, especially in your last several posts. I can almost guarantee that 12 months from now, no matter how this turns out, you will look back at a few of these posts and wonder "What was I thinking when I posted that?"

No one here is judging you, it's not about that, everybody has sympathy and hopes you come to a good resolution. General details are fine for getting support and ideas. Protect yourself a little online with both emotional and financial details.

Good Luck from a fellow supportive forum member
Thank you ivansfan. You are probably correct. I have been a bit more forthcoming in some of these post than I normally would be. I suppose was thinking the trials and tribulations of a Post Marital Agreement might in fact, help others, in the future, should anyone else have a similar situation.

Do I welcome the support from this forum? Yes I do. Do I have close female friends I'm sharing with? Yes. In fact, have a twin sister who is right there with me as well as three others with intimate knowledge and support.

This originally started with "another marriage bites the dust due to financial incompatibility" title. Perhaps I should now leave it at that.

Thanks to all for your comments and support. I will check back and update on progress perhaps as this goes forward.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:52 AM   #88
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I understand what you are saying Calico and thank you for the well wishes. He has been sending me emails. I have considered telling him to only communicate with me thru the lawyers. I suppose I am trying to keep legal fees down.
First I would like my money back if possible. Regarding that agreement. It was signed and notarized in a lawyers office. My current lawyer also reviewed it back in 2007 stating I had a legal agreement with all the necessary clauses.

Next, I'm reevaluating the lawyer I have. Why? Because I am not sure he is correct when he told me the assets my ex wasted were not marital according to the terms of the Post Marital Agreement. My thinking is that it is possible they were marital during the time of the marriage and reconciliations. This agreement comes into play ONLY with a separation and divorce. So I am thinking the nature of what he wasted thru gambling was indeed marital at that time.
So I am thinking i need another read on that clause.
Point to all of this is giving him a bit more time to pay off the loan.
Then will rethink the lawyer possibly going for something due to his breach of gambling. In other words, while I have more assets than he does, I am not working and he has a viable business...so am thinking I shouldn't rush to give up anything that may be possible at the moment. He married me and adopted my daughter and made us fend for ourselves all this time. What I have was built up slowly over 22 years so it's not like I didn't not have struggles along the way. All forms.

I seriously think it would be darn difficult for him to get it thrown out. Challenge maybe which is simply an exercise in throwing money away to lawyers. But again angry people do irrational things.
In your first post you said "Want nothing but peace, quiet and a chance for a more enriched life from this point on."

The points in red above are not congruent with your expressed desire to move on and seek nothing but peace from now on. They are not congruent with being "done with him." What they are is indicative of a desire to rehash the past and drag out the process.

Bottom line, it takes two to tango. They are called co-dependent relationships for a reason. No one "made" you do anything. You are an adult - you chose to participate in the unhealthy marriage for 22 years, including returning multiple times.

For whatever reasons, you are not ready to let it go and let the lawyers handle the details. Peace is a long way off, if indeed it ever arrives.

I hope your daughter, who did not have a choice in this situation, has managed to find her own peace by now.

I'm out.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:06 PM   #89
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Points for thought here;

This situation sounds like the "War" that my SIL and her husband in California had in 2005 or so (that was the start date) that was supposed to end in a year. He was a Sr Tax Partner at KPMG (Peat Marwick) at the time and this marriage was the second for both. Both came into the marriage well off, financially (Big Sunnyvale, Ca house (paid for), summer house in Tahoe, trusts for kids, expensive cars, lots of money, assets and earnings).

I don't know what really kicked it off (the divorce procedure), but it could have been similar reasons as the OP is stating, and then some. The War, as us family members call it, started with her kicking him out of the Sunyvale house, which he titled in her name shortly after they married in 1995. (It was his house originally) He rented an apartment and continued to work. She sat at home and put the house up for sale and started planning a new, luxurious, life.

Well, both got very, very good (and expensive) lawyers and the show started. For the next 5 years they had several draft divorces settlement agreements, court appearances, she hired a Forensic Accountant, they fought through e-mail, regular mail, phones calls, etc. The fighting spread to children and us family members distanced ourselves from them.

After spending an undisclosed amount (we guess $500K combined) on attorneys, they gave up and got back together after 5 years . He had a stroke near the end of this and she came to the realization that there would not be enough left for her to live the lifestyle she wanted after the divorce. They live together now in a much smaller house, and are constantly bickering, but kind of need each other in some ways. Both are "retired" for a better description of their status.

The point I am trying to make is this can turn into a "War" for you two if you are not careful, or if one party decides to keep the game going to see how much you can spend on legal fees. There will also be collateral damage that you had not counted on, etc. I suggest getting on track to ending your marriage as you plan and do so as suggested in many posts above. Good luck!
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:00 PM   #90
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Well..after the last two posts I think it's time for me to say thank you to all of those that were supportive. Some I have posted with thru the years. I much appreciate it.

Calico...I think it is pretty harsh to cast such judgement from my post. Obviously I can not and will disclose all details. Also please remember, you do not know me. I am well aware of the choices and decisions I made and the reasons they were made. i am not some floozy indecisive female or victim. And I don't think anyone here heard me complaining about that. I found your remarks both condescending and incorrect. Sorry but I did. But you are entitled to your remarks.

aja888. I do not know how you get that this sounds like "war" from my posts. But if I gave that impression in my post, let me correct it now. There is no war about it at the moment. And there is no reason for one. Perhaps I should not have "thought out loud" on this thread. Yes he is angry but I am not moving in the direction of "war". He doesn't have a lot to fight a war with, neither money or a legal stand.

I do appreciate the fair warning though.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:27 PM   #91
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I do appreciate the fair warning though.
Glad you appreciate it. I have seen enough of these *separations* and not a one was a quick walk to the courthouse and a kiss goodbye.

Even the ones where there was no money and a few low value assets, they were trying and lengthy ordeals.

I did not mean to imply that yours was a "war" yet.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:22 PM   #92
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...Bottom line, it takes two to tango. They are called co-dependent relationships for a reason. No one "made" you do anything. You are an adult - you chose to participate in the unhealthy marriage for 22 years, including returning multiple times.

For whatever reasons, you are not ready to let it go and let the lawyers handle the details. Peace is a long way off, if indeed it ever arrives.

I hope your daughter, who did not have a choice in this situation, has managed to find her own peace by now.

I'm out.
What are you out of?
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:59 PM   #93
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Check out a group called DivorceCare. You can find them on-line. They are usually sponsored by a church, but not at all preachy or judgmental. The group is usually led by someone who had also been through a divorce. It is usually free, too.
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:40 PM   #94
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Happened to stop by today and see this message. I know you were one of the posters who was so helpful for me when I was going through my divorce. I'm so sorry to see that you're going through one as well.

From what little I know of you, I know that an amazing future is ahead of you. Obviously, there will be ups and downs.

Have not gone through this entire thread, but the book "Getting Past Your Breakup" was invaluable to me. I wish you luck and send you hugs.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:12 PM   #95
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I'm amazed to read some of these posts. I don't have any idea where people get the idea they know so much about other peoples lives just from reading (and reading into) what someone has said they are currently experiencing. Seems presumptuous.....and frankly rather odd.

Sheesh1.....trust yourself the those you know care about you. It will all unfold however it will unfold, but you and your daughter will be fine.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:13 PM   #96
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Had the feeling he was really just waiting for me to die...knowing he would get something. Sad , huh?
Don't recall if this had been mentioned already.....but make damn sure you have updated any and all account beneficiary info to make sure his name appears NOWHERE on ANY document. Just to be 100% certain, might want to submit new beneficiary forms for each account anyway. Same goes for any trust, safety deposit box, life insurance or other assets not held at financial institutions.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:21 AM   #97
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Don't recall if this had been mentioned already.....but make damn sure you have updated any and all account beneficiary info to make sure his name appears NOWHERE on ANY document. Just to be 100% certain, might want to submit new beneficiary forms for each account anyway. Same goes for any trust, safety deposit box, life insurance or other assets not held at financial institutions.
Good suggestion. This should have been mentioned much sooner by someone. I feel embarrassed that it wasn't me. Not doing this would be a real rookie mistake.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:52 AM   #98
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I'm amazed to read some of these posts. I don't have any idea where people get the idea they know so much about other peoples lives just from reading (and reading into) what someone has said they are currently experiencing. Seems presumptuous.....and frankly rather odd.
+1. I've learned to avoid dishing out personal advices to others. Without understanding all the details, one of those "advices" can ruin one's life no matter what your intention was.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:59 AM   #99
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Good suggestion. This should have been mentioned much sooner by someone. I feel embarrassed that it wasn't me. Not doing this would be a real rookie mistake.
Good point. Many years ago a friend of mine was getting divorced. Her soon to be ex hubby had a $50,000 life insurance policy with her as the beneficiary (mid 70's so it was easily worth the price of a new house at that time). He died in a tragic auto accident. His family hired a lawyer and tried to get the money, but the law was clear and the almost ex wife got a good financial start at a young age.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:22 PM   #100
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Don't recall if this had been mentioned already.....but make damn sure you have updated any and all account beneficiary info to make sure his name appears NOWHERE on ANY document. Just to be 100% certain, might want to submit new beneficiary forms for each account anyway. Same goes for any trust, safety deposit box, life insurance or other assets not held at financial institutions.

Don't some of these changes have to wait until you are actually divorced? Retirement accounts in particular if you don't have a divorce decree the spouse is required to sign off on being dropped. Joint accounts, can you really dump the other owner?Also, you can write a new will, but if you die before you are divorced, I don't think you can just cutoff the surviving spouse.

Had a friend of my go thru this last winter, husband of 46 years said I don't want to be here anymore. They were separated and almost completely finished deciding on the asset split when he suddenly died. She got everything, asset split agreement meant nothing to the courts.
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