Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-17-2008, 08:01 PM   #41
Recycles dryer sheets
FreeBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity View Post
I'm against drilling in ANWR, but not for the reasons you might expect. I want to keep it as a strategic reserve, a source for precious hydrocarbon resources fifty years from now when the Saudi wells run dry.
Nicely said. IMHO whether we get the oil now or save it for the future, the reason that you have stated is right on... the fact is that this oil WILL be taken at some point. Even if it takes 5, 50, or 200 years to get to it, national security will not be compromised.

My opinion is that we oughta go ahead and get it while we can take our time and seek it out with as much sensitivity for preserving the lands environmental value as is possible, instead of going for it "in a rush" when the country is being threatened externally and the world has a dwindling oil supply.
__________________

__________________
"I don't do drugs.... I am drugs"
Salvador Dali
FreeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-17-2008, 11:14 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
Insanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
My opinion is that we oughta go ahead and get it while we can take our time and seek it out with as much sensitivity for preserving the lands environmental value as is possible, instead of going for it "in a rush" when the country is being threatened externally and the world has a dwindling oil supply.
Perhaps I was unclear about what I meant by "strategic." My idea of "strategic" is "economically strategic," not "militarily strategic."

Fifty years from now there may be very little easily accessed crude oil left to drill up. Hydrocarbon feedstock is vital to the manufacture of many products, from pharmaceuticals to plastics to fertilizer. Having a handy crude oil resource might mean the difference between remaining a major world economic power or ceding that title to the Chinese and Russians, who have both manufacturing facilities and oil reserves of their own,
__________________

__________________
Insanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2008, 11:55 AM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
FreeBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insanity View Post
Perhaps I was unclear about what I meant by "strategic." My idea of "strategic" is "economically strategic," not "militarily strategic."

Fifty years from now there may be very little easily accessed crude oil left to drill up. Hydrocarbon feedstock is vital to the manufacture of many products, from pharmaceuticals to plastics to fertilizer. Having a handy crude oil resource might mean the difference between remaining a major world economic power or ceding that title to the Chinese and Russians, who have both manufacturing facilities and oil reserves of their own,
Well said again, but I will have to respectfully disagree on the "strategic" part. There's just too many radicals out there whose most strategic goal is to destroy the US economy and they don't care how many men, women, or children that they have to murder to achieve that goal. My vote therefore remains for the ANWR oil be set aside for F-18 Hornet fighter jets because nothing is more important than defending the homeland and the vibrant economy that is gonna allow me to retire early.
__________________
"I don't do drugs.... I am drugs"
Salvador Dali
FreeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 04:23 PM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
Read in the paper that the Air Force is developing a coal to jet fuel plant in Montana (I think) So while there may not be fuel for Navy F-18s there should be plenty for Air Force F-16s.
__________________
Rustic23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 08:07 PM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofrugalformycat View Post
The other side of the story - I've been told that the three square miles (if that is indeed the number) is not in one place - it is multiple drilling platforms connected by roads. Picture a spider web of roads covering a huge area, with lots of tiny tiny red boxes, instead of one tiny red box in one place. So the tiny red box is misleading.
If you've ever seen arctic tundra you know how fragile it is. The damage will be there for hundreds if not thousands of years.
And all this for maybe one year's worth of oil, minus the oil consumed to drill and deliver it, plus all the spills that go with drilling and shipping.
Yes, this is what I understand as well.
My question is, have you (those who favor drilling) been to Alaska? to the interior? It's one of the last pristine wilderness areas in the USA. It is splendid, a place that takes your breath away. Here's a good article in the Smithsonian Smithsonian Magazine | Science & Nature | ANWR: The Great Divide

"An idyllic nursery for the nearly 40,000 caribou calves born here each year, the plain also happens to sit atop what is believed to be billions of barrels of untapped oil."

Many believe that drilling in the ANWR would disrupt the caribou migration. It would be a crime to drill for oil there, for the sake of a few billion barrels of oil.
__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 08:45 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,881
Quote:
It would be a crime to drill for oil there, for the sake of a few billion barrels of oil.
Have you driven a car before today? Have you had the opportunity to fork over $3 for one gallon of refined oil (gasoline)?

The Alaskan tundra can reproduce itself (nature has it's way) and ANWR will be able to support the caribou and other wildlife that demand it's structure. The USA can not provide crude oil in a cost effective way in the future w/o ANWR.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 09:43 PM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 260
newguy888 "Lets drill thru a reindeers head for all I care. we bought alaska for energy ... Right??"

First time in two days I think that I laughed out loud. Thanks Newguy
__________________
virginia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 07:32 AM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,598
I lived in Alaska for 45 months, much of that time the Alaska pipeline (yes there is one there already and it is working fine, no animal complaints that I know of) was being built. I traveled there when it was 50 degrees below 0, had a wind chill of about -75. Yes, it is nice and pretty, much of it never touched by humans, but it is not Heaven. I would guess 99.9% of Americans will never go there and those that do will never go off into the wilderness, just hang with the tourist routers. It is just wasted as far as being someplace to go and enjoy. Most of it is uninhabitable most of the year of not all of the time, has more than about 50 times the swamps that you find in Florida. Seems to have taken on a "Mom and Apple pie" connotation by many Americans. Like V says it was bought for Energy, lets go get it.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran, CW4 USA, Retired 1979
OAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 06:06 PM   #49
Recycles dryer sheets
FreeBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 67
Althought not mentioned in my previous postings, I too have lived in Alaska over two years total with two 5-month seasons working with a family hunting & fishing outfitter, and the rest just trips set aside to explore that magnificent wilderness... with a 7 week solo paddling of the Yukon river 1,800 miles from the British Columbia headwaters, Yukon Territory, and across Alaska to the Bering Sea in 1984. No one can appreciate wildermess more than me IMHO.

With that said I am still very open to taping the oil from ANWR but I want I want it done using the best and most environmentally sensitive technology possible. I haven't researched the ANWR controversy since it was in the front burner several years ago but I do recall seeing a documentary presenting both sides and I was quite impressed with the the technology that would be used to tap that oil.

As I recall the rigs that would be used would only be stationed along the coastal portions of ANWR leaving the VAST-VAST-(I repeat) VAST majority of the "inland" portions of ANWR virtually untouched. The technology of these new rigs (unlike those being used on the North Slope) have the ability to "spider" out in all directions for what I believe was around 10 miles so that would be much less impact on those coastal areas than if it had been done back in the 1970's or 80's.

They did a good job of convincing me and I'm most definitely one of those people who need a certain amount of wilderness in my life just like food, water, and air. Then again, just about any U.S. oil tapping technology that has ever been used over the last 50 years would be light years better that that used by some of those rogue-like Middle East countries... heck, those guys literally rape the land over there and we American's just can't seem to wait to pay $4.00/gallon for it. Go figgure!?!
__________________

__________________
"I don't do drugs.... I am drugs"
Salvador Dali
FreeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.