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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 11:22 AM   #21
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotadimple
I bought this book about 6 weeks ago, before finding this board. I think you've done a good job of covering a broad range of topics. I'd echo what others have said about addressing health insurance. I'd also suggest a broader list of references for further reading -- especially asset allocation.

-Rita
Rita, have a look at Page 173 -- a good list of books there. A few more suggestions in the appendix, too, page 301. If you have any more favorites to suggest, though, I'd be grateful to have a look at them. I did just read the Little Book of Value Investing, by one of the principles of Tweedy Browne, and it was pretty good, though his answer seems to be that you can own 3 years of expenses in fixed income, and the rest of your portfolio should be value funds, so there isn't a lot there on Asset Allocation!
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 11:28 AM   #22
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

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Originally Posted by BUM
Improve WLLM? Are you serious? Look what happened when they tried to improve the Bible. Look what happened after "Rocky". Publishers demands can be like a cranial tourniquet cinched up really tight. Don't let it get to you Bob.

If a new edition is a must, I'd focus on how the ER world and its inhabitants have changed since the first edition and what new lessons are to be learned. I'm good at pointing out the obvious. Beyond that...


Doesn't matter what I say. I'll buy a copy anyway, and against my better principles; at full retail.
BUM -- LOL
The Nolo business model is to publish a new edition every 2-3 years, so it isn't that they think there's anything wrong with the book, just that they want to make sure it stays up to date. I guess that is a good thing for the semi-retirement/FIRE community, but it means no resting on laurels for me.

To your point, though, how do you think the ER community has changed in the last few years? I hadn't really though about it, and in any case probably couldn't see the forest for the trees.

thx
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 11:42 AM   #23
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Bob,
Thanks for the reference. I've just looked there and those are good. I didn't see them repeated in the appendix (I checked Personal Finance very quickly. So here are some to add to the appendix:

Ferri, Richard A. All About Asset Allocation, McGraw Hill, 2006. Complements your rational investing discussion. Doesn't necessarily agree with it - but does complement it.

Malaspina, Margaret A. Cracking Your Retirement Nest Egg, Bloomberg, 2003. Some info is dated, but still a good discussion of how to start the cash flow from various retirement savings.

Sedlar, Jeri & Miners, Rick. Don't Retire, Rewire, Alpha, 2003. While not specifically about retiring early, a good one on considering what one does with the next stage of their life.

Pink, Daniel H. Free Agent Nation: the Future of Working for Yourself, Warner Business Books, 2002. For those interested in part-time work during retirement, or otherwise. There may be a newer edition out -- I picked this one up at Half Price Books.

Finally, this link was posted here about a week ago. I find it intriguing -- I'm not the most adept at the mathematics some discuss here, but a very good primer for those interested in looking further. Challenges the SWR discussion.

http://www.gummy-stuff.org/sensible_withdrawals.htm

--Rita
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 11:57 AM   #24
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Rita,
Thx for the book references. I've seen a couple of them, but the others are new. I'll have a look at them and get them into the new Appendix 2.

Gummy is great. I actually point people to that very thread on Page 303. It's a riot. One day I hope to be able to sling equations like our Gummy. In a future life perhaps?

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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 12:06 PM   #25
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

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Originally Posted by ESRBob
Gummy is great. I actually point people to that very thread on Page 303. It's a riot. One day I hope to be able to sling equations like our Gummy. In a future life perhaps?

Well, there's plenty to be said for reincarnation. I hadn't thought about coming back as mathematically 'adept,' but it may have merits!
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 12:35 PM   #26
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

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Originally Posted by ESRBob



But you can be a group of 1 now.
Thats news to me. I thought the minimum was 2 (in NY). I'll check it out.



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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 12:44 PM   #27
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Bob,

I would love to see a discusion of how to avoid the tax trap that Scott Burns wrote about, whereby extra income (including from tax-sheltered accounts) while taking SS results in up to a 50% marginal tax rate at relatively low incomes.

There aren't many options, especially when it is late in the game, but there are strategies that can help--especially if you start early. Nords explained his approach to me, involving converting tax-protected accounts to Roths bit by bit. It helps to have investments outside of tax-protected accounts. (Oh, darn.)

Thanks.

Ed
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 12:59 PM   #28
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter
Well, personally speaking, I always feel sort of left out when reading any books to do with retirement and money, as I do not fall in that catagory of ever having a 401K or even an IRA. I prepared for retirement by purchasing real estate, and so all my assets are non-tax sheltered. (once sold-as I am in process of doing now)

There are never any chapters in books for us former real estate mogels, with any guidance or suggestions of how to handle larger sums of money without the benifit of any tax sheltering. And I know I'm not alone out there. I am sure there are many such as me who have chosen this path to building wealth instead.--right or wrong.
So managing your money when ever you want to "sell out" and retire, without giving it all back to uncle sam, would be a nice addition to any book to do with finances.
YEAH! What you said! There has to be another option than the tired old 1031 exchange, keep babysitting the tenants, and pass on the stepped up basis to your heirs advice. Dammit - I want to spend that which our efforts have earned us and not be the classic 72 years old landlord.
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 08:37 PM   #29
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

I think the private HSA suggested by Peaceful Warrior in another thread bears consideration in addressing the health insurance issue, especially if you are healthy now and your employer will pay you some nominal amount for waiving insurance. High deductible HSAs are pretty inexpensive --the cost may actually be very similar to employer sponsored group coverage for many, and are a way to build a sizeable pre-tax healthcare emergency fund as well as assure yourself of an individual guaranteed renewable policy that you can take with you. They have the potential to make the health care issue moot for many. Tracy

p.s. really enjoyed your book!
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-15-2007, 09:51 PM   #30
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

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Originally Posted by BUM
Thats news to me. I thought the minimum was 2 (in NY). I'll check it out.
Yeah, had a NY broker tell me this last week, and I remembered we bought one for an employee of a nonprofit a few years back, although there were other employees in the organization, just none wanting insurance.
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-16-2007, 06:23 PM   #31
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Also, I think the overstated "safe 4% withdrawel rate" needs some updating. I have read considerable articles and studies lately that point to a lower withdrawel rate today, based on current stock market evaluations and expected returns for the next decade.

They feel the 4% will not apply for most folks going foward. Some of the articles did mention that the founder of this board was not in agreement with these studies. But I found the articles logical, though I am by no means an expert in the subject.
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-16-2007, 07:51 PM   #32
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

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Originally Posted by modhatter
Also, I think the overstated "safe 4% withdrawel rate" needs some updating. I have read considerable articles and studies lately that point to a lower withdrawel rate today, based on current stock market evaluations and expected returns for the next decade.
Links, man, we need links. Otherwise you're about to rain down a lot of H0cus...
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-17-2007, 11:52 AM   #33
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotadimple
B

Ferri, Richard A. All About Asset Allocation, McGraw Hill, 2006. Complements your rational investing discussion. Doesn't necessarily agree with it - but does complement it.

Rita, I love Ferri's book -- it came out after Work Less Live More went to press, but thanks for the reminder and it will go in the resources for that investing chapter. Just curious, though, where you saw disagreement between what I had been saying -- I'd like to look more deeply into that area and make sure I haven't unintentionally left something out etc.
thx!
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-21-2007, 01:18 PM   #34
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ESRBob
Just curious, though, where you saw disagreement between what I had been saying -- I'd like to look more deeply into that area and make sure I haven't unintentionally left something out etc.
thx!
Bob,
I think the difference between WLLM and Ferri is in the details. Your book covers a very broad range of subjects. The Ferri book is focused on asset allocation alone and so he provides a more in depth discussion of investing in each asset class (and sub asset class) type. There are differences in the design of asset allocation in Rational Investing and the asset allocation design he suggests.

On page 40, you summarize Rational Investing as ". . . simple, requiring little time or emotional effort." Ferri doesn't disagree with the notion of low correlation asset allocation. The contradiction in Ferri's book is the notion that ". . .it is impossible to design a portfolio that completely neutralizes risk during every market cycle." (p-72).

MPT is a deep subject and you provide a very good overview to the reader, but, you also cover a lot of other subjects to help one consider all the factors of FIRE.

As, you say this is a new book since yours was published.

He has a separate discussion on behavioral finance (Chapter 13 p 243ff) that provides a good discussion of risk tolerance and risk avoidance. Rational Investing, in my view, is about risk avoidance (which is a good thing ). Risk tolerance is a different issue -- he points out that tolerance is what drives decision-making, and even though there is a method for investing to reduce risk, each person's tolerance level could push them to decisions that affect the portfolio outcome adversely.

See pp 246-247 where a study looked at the impact of risk tolerance on investors using asset allocation strategies. "It is hard for investors to sell what makes them happy and buy more of what makes them sad, especially during a deep bear market when everyone is gloomy." He concludes you need to understand your tolerance level. That's not a challenge to Rational Investing -- just an add-on that you might want to discuss.

-- Rita
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?
Old 04-22-2007, 03:45 PM   #35
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Re: Any suggestions for improving Work Less Live More?

Rita,
Thanks much for the objective comparison -- yes, I see and agree with what you've said here, pretty much The way I look at it, Rational Investing is consistent with Ferri's approach, and that if someone were interested in learning more after reading WLLM, Ferri's would be first book I wold point people to. Even though Bernstein kind of helped me put all the pieces together initially, I think Ferri's book is clearer and frankly better edited, so that is now where I'm pointing people, now that it's out. The differences you point out are nuances or matters of degree or depth, but not of philosphy or even academic foundation.

My only quibble is that I certainly would not ever want to suggest that Rational Investing could eliminate risk 100%. That is impossible for any investing approach, at least if you want to have a real return that you could live on. (all I-bonds might come close to 100% safe, but would give you a 2% withdrawal rate). I'll try to make that clearer next time around, as I wouldn't want to leave people with the wrong impression. Eliminate risk of underperforming the market -- yes, OK, RI can do that. But the market itself goes all over the place, so there is always going to be variation in returns.

Risk tolerance is an important subject -- glad Ferri goes into that in some depth. It is the psychological battle -- that is where the whole thing can be lost. Tto keep you staying the course with an investing strategy during the tough times, and not panicking and doing bad things when the market starts doing its roller coaster impersonations.
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