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Old 09-20-2013, 10:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post

The previous owners had a nice cedar fence about 2 ft on neighbor property.
We did not need to do anything, because the fence got repossessed (funny story, yeah?) before we closed on the house.

And I checked the covenants and it actually says about easement for encroachment and overhangs - I'm attaching the wording below - sorry it's hard to read, but this is how I got it.
That's just crazy ( and lazy ) . But that wording would rarely be found in most covenants. It also says it has to be "unintentional". Just being ignorant or stupid is not unintentional. Telling a contractor to put something where it shouldn't be because you didn't know any better is still intentional ( ie " it was your intent to put it there"). Having the soil erode or shift and the porch now encroaches a foot over the line is unintentional.

If you can't determine property within a few inches you are moving back to the stone ages ( or some third world countries!)
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Al in Ohio View Post

If you can't determine property within a few inches you are moving back to the stone ages ( or some third world countries!)
This was the original motivation for this thread. It sounds like there is some agreement that survey can be reliable within an inch or so. However if the
disagreement about fence location is 1.5 to 2", the S/N ratio is not great.
Would that be a correct conclusion?
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kaneohe View Post

This was the original motivation for this thread. It sounds like there is some agreement that survey can be reliable within an inch or so. However if the
disagreement about fence location is 1.5 to 2", the S/N ratio is not great.
Would that be a correct conclusion?
My reference was to the 5ft easement covenant. I would never quibble over fence placement within a few inches of a proper survey. Good practice is to install YOUR fence 4- inches inside your survey. That's safe and neighborly to boot.
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:20 PM   #24
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(snip)If you can't determine property within a few inches you are moving back to the stone ages ( or some third world countries!)
I think it would be more accurate to say, "if you can't determine location within a few inches...." and you needn't go back more than a hundred years or so to be in a time when achieving even that level of accuracy was by no means certain--you can run into all sorts of fun on a survey due to the less-accurate measuring methods in use before GPS & so on were developed. Even after you know your location precisely, you don't necessarily know where a given property and its boundaries are, because there are legal principles to be applied too.

I worked for many years on a land survey crew, but I was never licensed, so I don't know all the legal niceties, but I've had some exposure to the sort of questions that can arise as a result of earlier and less accurate survey methods. At one time, I owned a house that was built in 1920 on a lot that was platted around the turn of the 20th century. The winter after I bought it, most of the back fence blew down in a big windstorm. I hired one of my co-workers, who was licensed, to locate the true property line before rebuilding the fence. There are two different plats which supposedly adjoin each other somewhere in that block, but in the course of locating my property lines, we discovered that because the original surveys of these two plats started from two different sets of monuments, there is a sliver of land over a foot wide, a "no man's land" that isn't part of either plat. Careful measurement can reveal the existence of a glitch like this, but it takes knowledge of the relevant land law to know how the boundaries of nearby properties are affected by it.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:11 AM   #25
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I had my property surveyed, to beat back a neighbor's effeorts to encroach. Claimed he had 10 feet more along that property line. The original pins were magically missing along the offending neighbor's property line. the others were found by the surveyor and flagged.

Surveyour used a monument several blocks away as starting point, to get to my porperty. First though he stopped at the county recorder of deeds to pick up a legal description of my plot.

I had him insert several pins along the offending neighbor's line, plus I handed him two 3/4 inch by 6 foot rebar to mark the corners at the wiseguy's lot. Pounded in so about one foot remains above ground. With bright orange tape tied on, to be sure it it is visibele Three others wer just one foot 1/2" rebar.

Neighbor was unhappy with results. Some months later the small pins disappeared. There were marks on the 3/4 rebar showing attempts to remove. Heh heh, would have needed a big jack to pull them out.

More time passes, wiseguy getting angrier, looking at corner stakes, veins popping out of his neck, beet red etc. My unprofessional opinion, the guy is nutcase.

One day a surveyor shows up. A polite chat reveals, he was hired to do only the line between wiseguy's and my property. This surveyor used a different monument as starting point. His results were within an inch of my surveyor's results. They both used angle measurements to arrive at solutions.

Neighbor's surveyor installed five wooden stakes to mark property line. I promptly installed 3/4 inch five foot rebar on my side of the newly installed wooden stakes.

Neighbor is still pi$$ed that the results were the same as obtained by my surveyor. Pulled up his survey markers, and tried to pull up mine as well. No success on the rebar which are only 6" exposed above ground.

Jerks are everyhere. Thank goodness for surveyors who do their job well,
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:48 PM   #26
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... Pulled up his survey markers, and tried to pull up mine as well. ....
I love all of the survey stories above. ls99 - If you want to give your neighbor fits, install these kind of survey stakes.



They have wings that spread out underground to prevent them from being removed. Or, there's always ones that can be jackhammered into bedrock.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:35 PM   #27
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Thanks for the tip Ronstar. Will invest in a few. WAY cool device.
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