Anyone else feel like we should skip antagonistic threads?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well this forum doesnt let you size text down to the nearly unseeable, which was a great feature of the old forum. So white text it is.

Maybe we change the forum default for all users to white, so we have to highlight only what we want to read?

 

[ERD50]

Well, just my humble opinion, but please, let's not get *too* politically correct around here. Let's be adults.

Personally, I thought the buttermilk thread was hilarious! IMO, not only was OAP at his 'eccentric' best, but if you actually read what he said, there was nothing 'racist' in it - the mention of ethnicity added a bit of authenticity to his deconstruction of the pronunciation. And he was careful to balance it later with a story of a race that it is apparently OK to describe as obese. I found it encouraging that the PC police didn't jump on it (maybe they have by now).

Now, I don't read every thread anyhow, but I *did* skip over that Mexican/drunk/driving thing. Something about that just screamed 'nothing good can come from this' - but, I didn't read it so maybe I'm wrong. My loss then, but I'll take my chances.

So, bottom line, it's kind of a tough call. But I would agree, a thread started just to rile things up (unless it's a positive type riling up) should be discouraged.

Which probably doesn't help one bit - but there, I said it.

-ERD50

PS - Hey - what happened to the 'A new post has arrived while you were posting feature'!!??

 

[Sam]

Personally, I thought the buttermilk thread was hilarious! IMO, not only was OAP at his 'eccentric' best, but if you actually read what he said, there was nothing 'racist' in it...

I agree. I'm so glad you said it first. I wanted to, but did not for fear of missing something racist in the thread. So I went back and read it a couple more times. I couldn't find anything racist.

So I'm at a loss as to why the buttermilk was mentioned several times here

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

For the record, the buttermilk thread wasnt that offensive to me. A little racial stereotyping and making fun of fat people and how some people talk but in fitting with the OP's sense of humor, I didnt have a big problem with it.

I can do without the racist 'mexican' threads and the 950th thread on iraq.

 

[calmloki]

I agree. I'm so glad you said it first. I wanted to, but did not for fear of missing something racist in the thread. So I went back and read it a couple more times. I couldn't find anything racist.

So I'm at a loss as to why the buttermilk was mentioned several times here

Ooo Ooo! I know! It was the dialect! And this from someone who thinks that they control their native racism. I'm telling you (generic you) - take the Harvard test in my racism post - it's quite enlightening. And dang it - I enjoy some dialect - it adds flavor to jokes.

 

[bright eyed]

i've certainly heard conversations in restaurants or coffee houses that were in the same vein - but of course the person or group being made fun of was not either in the room or in the group - often loudly discussing it. on the internet you never know who is in the room - but we have the luxury of relative annonymity here...

perhaps a rule of thumb is - if you were standing in a room full of (whatever group or individual) would you feel so footloose and fancy free to launch into rawkus laughter and poke fun of their speech patterns? give it a try...and let me know how it goes

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Sam, and ERD50, thanks. I'm not sure that was the thread CFB was referring to because he actually has seen the same and posted such.

I put it out there because the people were anonymous and it was exactly as it happened. But it does look as if we have closet types who want to make themselves seem perfect by falsely accusing and it's very clear that I neither attack a race or sexual orientation, simply told a funny story in a light-hearted way. Made a few laugh.

Guarantee it won't happen again cause the door just hit me in the ass. Happy moderators all around.

(Gonna stay around a few more minutes to send a few PMs with a private, anonymous email to stay in touch with a few. Won't mention names so I don't taint anyone)

 

[Sarah in SC]

Yeah, OAP describes my home state with great accuracy, I'm afraid. The diabetes epidemic along with strokes and other obesity related illnesses are well known to us in the South, and I took his thread to be just confirmation of what I see every day. I took no offence to OAP, because I know he's been out West, where there are just skinny people (and no one who drinks buttermilk for breakfast, for a long time!

Sarah

 

[Sam]

calmoki, what are you talking about?

 

[cube_rat]

So let me break down what comes across as racist is the buttermilk post, kay? How about desribing and pronouncing words on how an African American from the south may speak? Sort of like someone would write out how a Mexican person may pronounce "chicken" or "cheat" which would sound like "shicken" or "sheet". Actually the worst part of that particular post is poking fun at the morbidly obese. It's NOT a funny issue. It's an alarming issue, yes, but not funny.

I'm not morbidy obese nor am I fat, in fact I'm a health/excersise fanatic. I can't imagine the shame and self hatred a morbidy obese person with an obvious food addiction problem goes through on a daily basis. Try having people laugh at you as you're walking down the street, breaking chairs or not being allowed on an airplane. Food addiction is no different from alcholism, drug or sex addiction. They each have the same circle of self hate, loathing component that drives them to continue with their drug/poison of choice.

Have a little freaking compassion!

 

[Sam]

Sam, and ERD50, thanks. I'm not sure that was the thread CFB was referring to because he actually has seen the same and posted such.

No, it wasn't CFB. I think it was brighteye who mentioned buttermilk, and Martha who mentioned obese (which I translated - incorrectly I hope - into buttermilk).

 

[Sam]

So let me break down what comes across as racist is the buttermilk post, kay? How about desribing and pronouncing words on how an African American from the south may speak? Sort of like someone would write out how a Mexican person may pronounce "chicken" or "cheat" which would sound like "shicken" or "sheet".

I totally disagree with you. You can call it racist if you want. I make fun of my kids' American accent all the time when they speak Vietnamese, and they make fun of my Vietnamese accent when I speak English.

 

[retire@40]

I've used countless forums. I've seen this handled mostly in two ways, which are 1) starting political threads with a title similar to "POLITICAL: Illegal Immigration" or "RELIGION: Pope's Comments on Islam," or 2) have a forum specifically dedicated to political or contentious topics such as religion, politics, or in my neck of the woods, football.

But you would still have to look at all those topics even though you may not click on it to view the thread.

One deficiency in this forum software is that there is no "ignore thread" option. You see a thread you don't like, you click on the "ignore thread" box and that thread never appears again when you click on "new posts."

That would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Sam]

One deficiency in this forum software is that there is no "ignore thread" option. You see a thread you don't like, you click on the "ignore thread" box and that thread never appears again when you click on "new posts."

Yes, that and improve the current "ignore list" feature, so that the threads started by the ignored never show up in the first place. Call that new feature "Total invisibility" !

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

No, it wasn't CFB. I think it was brighteye who mentioned buttermilk, and Martha who mentioned obese (which I translated - incorrectly I hope - into buttermilk).

Its okay, i'm the lightning rod. I'm used to it. Keeps me from spending a lot of money on hair gel.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I totally disagree with you. You can call it racist if you want. I make fun of my kids' American accent all the time when they speak Vietnamese, and they make fun of my Vietnamese accent when I speak English.

I think you hit on an important part of the problem: offensiveness is highly context-sensitive. For some comments, it's fine in one setting and offensive or distasteful in another. Whether it's ethnic jokes, the humorous side of various accents, or racist quips, their ability to offend depends on the audience.

So on a public forum where you have no way of testing the waters of sensitivity, why take a chance of hurting or offending someone if you can make the same points in a different way? You only decrease your own effectiveness.

Yeah, the reader needs to loosen up sometimes, too. But since it's so hard to see the lines in this medium (forum discussions), I try to play it safe.

Sam, it may be humorous and easily done within your family because you know and love one another. But would you find it funny if I paraphrased your message and somehow altered my spelling to obviously mimic an exaggerated Vietnamese accent without any further context, or even worse, some quip evoking ethnic stereotypes or whatever?

Context matters a lot.

 

[loosechickens]

In an ideal world, we'd all be intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate people. But we're not. Rather than censorship, I prefer the "ignore any threads you don't like", and the recognition that the medium, which allows for more or less anonymity, often brings out the worst in many.

The best thing, IMHO, is that folks should refrain from saying anything in a thread here that they would hesitate to say in public and in person. If we could only bring the level of discourse up even that much it would be an improvement.

I try not to get my knickers in a twist about anything posted by some person I don't really even know, who might not even be who he or she purports to be, saying something on an anonymous board on the internet.

Yep, there are people here I would consider racist, or sexist, or just plain ignorant. So what? I just don't spend a lot of time perusing their thoughts on things.

Do I wish we were more able to discuss things peacefully? Of course. But this is the reality of anonymous forums. And I think our moderators do a great job of keeping it within some sort of reasonable bounds.

LooseChickens

 

[ERD50]

Food addiction is no different from alcholism, drug or sex addiction. They each have the same circle of self hate, loathing component that drives them to continue with their drug/poison of choice.

Have a little freaking compassion!

I seriously do not think that OAP was making fun of the obese. I took it more as 'shaking your head' and being incredulous over the situation - kind of like most of us do when we talk about the people that spend, spend, spend and rack up credit card debt and then express amazement that we can retire early.

I have pity on anyone with a medical condition or true addiction that causes them to be obese. But I really, really doubt that is a common cause. How is it that haha can walk the streets of Seattle and not see obese people? How it that I spent a week in Korea and started *looking* for overweight natives and found only one somewhat large young lady (she worked in a restaurant, that may have contributed to it). I thought I *scored* a second one, turned out to be a dark haired Caucasian. This was in Seoul, high standard of living, I'm not talking about possibly poor starving rural types.

Just like the spenders, most of these people *choose* to overeat and not exercise. What you see is the result. It is a shame, but it is within their control (most of them anyway).

-ERD50

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Context on who the poster is, what they've had to offer the community, and their history...along with the subject matter.

I appreciate some of OAP's posts, because I know who he is, what he's been through, and a fair bit of what he's all about. Someone without that background might take the comments at face value. Some folks also are looking to be outrageous or outraged.

 

[Sam]

Sam, it may be humorous and easily done within your family because you know and love one another. But would you find it funny if I paraphrased your message and somehow altered my spelling to obviously mimic an exaggerated Vietnamese accent without any further context, or even worse, some quip evoking ethnic stereotypes or whatever?

No Rich, it might not be funny. But LET'S NOT LOSE FOCUS HERE. We are not talking about humour, not about offensive, not about ethnicity. We are talking about something much more severe: RACISM!

My point is the same, I don't find anything racist in OAP's thread.

 

[calmloki]

calmoki, what are you talking about?

I'm saying that the portion of OAP's buttermilk post that could be interpreted as racist was the dialect he wrote out. Frankly, I didn't pick up on the obesity issue. I enjoy Mark Twain, Booth Tarkington's Penrod, and the old Amos and Andy show. I enjoy Irish dialect jokes. I have known that I, unlike Stephen Colbert, do see color and have tried to compensate for that rather than denying the flaw. I grew up getting lots of input on how skinny i was - It's much more painful in person in a crowd than alone in front of a computer screen. Maybe PC can be carried too far?
I did a post earlier today with racism in the title - it links to a Harvard test of racism which I did badly on, but found very interesting to take.

 

[cube_rat]

I really enjoy the logical responses and different perspectives here, which is why I still lurk on this site. I still stand my ground, however, with my perspective on how I took the infamous buttermilk post. We can all agree to disagree which is nice.

 

[bright eyed]

I totally disagree with you. You can call it racist if you want. I make fun of my kids' American accent all the time when they speak Vietnamese, and they make fun of my Vietnamese accent when I speak English.

well, and we all make fun of our own, but when someone else does it (or if it is done publicly - as in this forum, cuz i don't know what race OAP is) it is discomforting...

i don't like when margaret cho makes fun of her parent's accent - it hurts my parents feelings and it's not funny that people who aren't korean or asian think it's funny - cuz they certainly don't understand - they are laughing at her/her parents - not with...

in terms of how to regulate - i guess it is a toughy - i think there are definitely some posters who have a lot of feathers to ruffle or something - so if they get too many complaints the moderators can figure out what to do. i know i have lost my cool too otherwise i think this thread at least puts it out there and will give people pause to better consider what they are contributing to as things quickly spiral their way down...

 

[haha]

I feel that we are running a bit toward hypersensitivity. I personally try to avoid making others feel bad in direct verbal discourse. But if the rule about what can be written is that it shouldn't offend anyone, get ready for totally useless writing. Also get ready for mass abandonment of this board. Occasionally there is information that would not be easy to get in a more economical way elsewhere- prominent is legal, health, tax, SS and similar topics where some posters have generously shared what is truly expert knowledge. This is excellent and I believe highly reliable.

Most of the rest is personalities, which I ordinarily find interesting, and boilerplate about investing which I feel may or may not be worth anything at all.

I really get a laugh out of the OP (bunny) suggesting that we refrain from intentionally stirring the pot. This is pretty much the definition of chutzpah.

Ha

 

[bright eyed]

My point is the same, I don't find anything racist in OAP's thread.

but that doesn't mean it wasn't or couldn't be interpreted that way...

whether or not it was OAP's intention - the result was that some of us thought it was insensitive or ignorant. given my experience, history and understanding - that's how i interp'd it...we all come with our backgrounds and experience - which contribute to how we see the world. sometimes exposure, or lack thereof can contribute to missing something - compassion and understanding are definitely not a universal required course in our world, nor are they a requirement for participating in this board! so we can disagree...