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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-17-2005, 11:38 PM   #21
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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Originally Posted by Notth
. . . I just hope to god if I become a veg that the feds dont try to come to my rescue to keep me "alive" when I dont want to be.
Well, if you're a veg, you might not care. But isn't it scary to realize that there are misguided and hateful neo-cons who would want to haunt and punish your wife for your unfortunate situation?
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 01:02 AM   #22
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

Oh no, not this again.

"The National Academy of Sciences estimates that 18,000 adults die each year because they are uninsured and cannot get proper care."

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs...0312/-1/wire02


Screw the uninsured, we need to protect fertilized eggs and people in a veg state!
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 01:04 PM   #23
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

You're right art. The husband was a liar, a bastard and probably a murderer. The police investigators way back when this happened and all the way to the present somehow failed to follow up and properly handle this murderous lying bastard. The judge is a whacko scumbag that didnt listen to the evidence and is as murderous as the husband by having decided on a preponderance of evidence that she wished something that nobody would ever wish. All the other appeal judges, not wanting to out the original judge for his murderous intent, decided to agree with him.

Then the governor, the congress of the united states and the president of the united states were unable to undo this murderous clans devious plan.

Now, 15 years later the governor of florida discovers new evidence that isnt new at all and has already been discounted by police investigators and doctors as being irrelevant. He's convinced that this evidence means some funny business might have happened and the husband will be dragged back into court to pay more legal fees to defend himself.

Good thing we have Jeb Bush. Otherwise that bastard would have gotten off scot free.

And where were you all this time Art with your indepth knowledge? You could have helped Jeb and George catch this summbitch a lot earlier.

I do agree with you on one item. The torture of this poor woman was awful. She should have been allowed to pass on as nature and god obviously intended her to, 15 years ago.

But lets put that aside and go back to the original post. Why do you think it took 15 years for the governor and his prosecutor to decide they needed to investigate this uncertain span between her accident and the 911 call, particularly when that was already investigated and the husband already found to have acted in a timely manner, and the attending physician concurring that if the call hadnt been made nearly immediately, that she would have been dead?
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 01:26 PM   #24
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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Originally Posted by Notth
But lets put that aside and go back to the original post.* Why do you think it took 15 years for the governor and his prosecutor to decide they needed to investigate this uncertain span between her accident and the 911 call, particularly when that was already investigated and the husband already found to have acted in a timely manner, and the attending physician concurring that if the call hadnt been made nearly immediately, that she would have been dead?
When does Jeb need to start raising those election-campaign funds?

Hillary or Jeb. Whew.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 01:29 PM   #25
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

Well, someone in the clan does need to hang onto the job until one of the twins dries out and is old enough to run

Besides, even Barbara is surprised George became prez and Jeb didnt at least get in there first. When your MOM is surprised....man...
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 02:33 PM   #26
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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Originally Posted by Notth
Good thing we have Jeb Bush.* Otherwise that bastard would have gotten off scot free.
Screw Jeb Bush and the whole Bush clan. As a card-carrying Clinton-hater, I emailed Jebbie and told him that if it was down to him or Hillary in 08, I'd vote for Hillary- and I meant it.

This is nothing but a transparent political attempt to do damage control with conservatives he pissed off by not using force to save Terri... the same kind of force Clinton used to seize Elian Gonzalez in violation of court orders at the time, btw (libs only mind use of force in violation of court orders when the perceived victim- Michael Schiavo, in this case- is a Democrat.)

As for this right-wing Christian stuff, I am neither Christian, nor religious. Conservative on some issues, not all. But there is NO DOUBT that the liberal media fed the public a steady stream of lies, distortions, and bs poll questions on Schiavo- causing the Republican wimps to falsely believe the public supported Michael Schiavo (and they did, but only based on deliberately worded polls and lies meant to confuse) and so allow this woman to be tortured to death in front of her parednts and siblings who LOVED HER and only wanted to CARE FOR HER, may they burn in hell forever for loving her so much. Amen.

The police investigations were shoddy. Michael's timelines are bullshit. Facts are in dispute. And the fates conspired to kill this girl, who was used a a proxy for pro-euthanasia activists, executive vs. legislative turf war, and Democrat vs. Republican partisan warfare- rather than as it should have been handled- with simple humanity, decency and mercy, for, if nothing else, a grieving, loving mother, father, sister and brother.

But, Frankenstein won. And now he announces his NEW BOOK on his beloved Terri- movie to follow! While he still keeps her ashes in the basement and refuses to tell her family where or when she'll be buried- as required by court order. After melting her wedding ring and depriving her family of a lock of her hair, and the right to be with her as she breathed her last breath. But oh... how he loved Terri! Sure, he refused treatment of her urinary tract infections- but that doesn't mean he didn't lover her... does it?

"He said there was no proof she suffered from an eating disorder such as bulimia, which can disrupt the body chemistry with lethal effect. The main piece of evidence cited for an eating disorder - the low levels of potassium in her blood in 1990 - could have been caused by the emergency treatment she received at the time, Thogmartin said."

"Yet medical examiners could not say for certain what caused her sudden 1990 collapse, long thought to have been brought on by an eating disorder."

"He discounted the possibility that she had overdosed on caffeine from drinking large amounts of tea in an effort to keep her weight down."

"In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the governor said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, 1990, and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m."

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

"On Wednesday, Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, said his client didn't wait to call for help and has conceded that he confuses dates and times."

Google: Hammesfahr Board-certified neurologist who spent many hours with her- not the 45 min spent by Crandall- Dr. Death- but a good long time. Read his report- he was slimed by the media- but his report has not been credibly refuted.

Then believe whatever you want. I'll do the same.

But I'm all for sticking a fork in Terri's murderer with this review of her collapse- since there's too many unanswered questions. Her girlfriends tell us she told them she was going to leave Michael the night she collapsed (she was at dinner with them that evening). But husbands don't kill their wives, right?

I know, Laurence, her girlfriends are liars, the nurses are liars... just one look at Michael Schiavo shows that he's the only honest person in this case. Just ask the legally blind county probate judge. So, he confuses dates and times. So, he forgets Teri's wishes for years, then conveniently remembers.

As long as the Republicans lose, life is good!

Peace.




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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 02:39 PM   #27
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

Ok, let me try this again...what took 15 years to figure out again?

By the way, i've never voted for anyone remotely liberal, so you can quit calling me one. I'm just not seeing a conspiracy here.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 02:47 PM   #28
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Screw Jeb Bush and the whole Bush clan. As a card-carrying Clinton-hater, I emailed Jebbie and told him that if it was down to him or Hillary in 08, I'd vote for Hillary- and I meant it.

[blah, blah, blah....]

I know, Laurence, her girlfriends are liars, the nurses are liars... just one look at Michael Schiavo shows that he's the only honest person in this case. Just ask the legally blind county probate judge. So, he confuses dates and times. So, he forgets Teri's wishes for years, then conveniently remembers.

As long as the Republicans lose, life is good!

Peace.
Art, lighten up man. You're gonna blow a gasket.

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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 02:55 PM   #29
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

notth--Just read the back page of Business Week. The Governator wants to have retired judges do the proportioning for political districts in Kalifornia. He wants this on the new ballot initiative. Good job for retired folks, I think. I love sticking my nose in other people's business. It keeps retired folks busy . I think I might know you?

I actually really like the idea of having retired folks (those NOT receiving money from any special interest group) doing things related to governing. But for free. For the right reasons. For the good of the country. If this is possible? Let's volunteer to run California. I'll help--if they give me free Depends.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 03:07 PM   #30
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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Originally Posted by Notth
Why do you think it took 15 years for the governor and his prosecutor to decide they needed to investigate this uncertain span between her accident and the 911 call, particularly when that was already investigated and the husband already found to have acted in a timely manner, and the attending physician concurring that if the call hadnt been made nearly immediately, that she would have been dead?
I thought I answered this.

Jeb's motivation is pure damage control to repair relations with his conservative base who think he wimped out by not using force to save Terri.

My motivations are to try to get a better investigation done once and for all (although I doubt this will happen) and to piss off Terri's murderer as much as possible.

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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 03:08 PM   #31
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Art, lighten up man.* You're gonna blow a gasket.

REW
Actually, I feel much better now. Thanks.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 03:52 PM   #32
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

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Originally Posted by Off Topic
Let's volunteer to run California. I'll help--if they give me free Depends.
In California, they'll have to be special biodegradeble Depends made from 100% post consumer material.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 03:56 PM   #33
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

Well Art, obviously something you feel strongly about, and I'm sorry if you feel like I'm not sympathetic to your feelings. As someone who trusts the government and courts as far as I can throw the collective lot, I cant possibly see any way someone could do away with their wife in this manner and given the scope, breadth and depth of the consideration and examination...that somehow he just got away with it.

The balance of witnesses, jurists, doctors, legislators and public made decisions and provided agreement. While there are always going to be people who look at things differently and wish to believe the minority reports, it looks to me like the right thing was done.

Vindictive after-the-fact lashing out that will have no benefit seems worthless. But its less frightening than regretting the lack of a shootout between the local police and some state or federal cops, with the state or federal agents in defiance of our rules of law. The local police WERE prepared to draw guns and defend the courts decisions.

Any class of people who feel that court decisions they dont agree with should be overridden by the executive or legislative branch, in particular by use of force, need to take a good hard re-read of the constitution.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 04:25 PM   #34
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notth

But its less frightening than regretting the lack of a shootout between the local police and some state or federal cops, with the state or federal agents in defiance of our rules of law.* The local police WERE prepared to draw guns and defend the courts decisions.
At the very, very end, when Numbnuts County got all policed- and sheriffed-up outside the hospice, it was too late. Before then, Jeb had plenty of time to get her to safety without bloodshed.

The day the federal court denied congress' order to hold a de novo trial, or any time after that, would have been fine. The day the Mark Schiavo defied a congessional subpoena to get her to D.C. to testify via her family, etc,, would have been fine. No bloodshed, guaranteed.

The Constitution is interpreted by the courts, and several of these key court decisions went against Terri by ONE VOTE. It's not like our legal system is a science, although we are expected to treat it's decisions as though it were.

U.S. history is full of Supreme Court, and lower court, decisions that were later overturned- and resulted in horrible pain for innocent people. Read "Men In Black" by Mark Levin.

So while I have no choice but to abide by these laws, I don't always feel the need to shrug my soldiers and say, "oh, well". Nor do I need to re-read the constitution.

In this case, it is so clear that her continued existence would have harmed no one, that her court-sanctioned murder can never be forgiven, nor should it be.

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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 04:40 PM   #35
 
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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U.S. history is full of Supreme Court, and lower court, decisions that were later overturned- and resulted in horrible pain for innocent people. Read "Men In Black" by Mark Levin.

So while I have no choice but to abide by these laws, I don't always feel the need to shrug my soldiers and say, "oh, well". Nor do I need to re-read the constitution.

In this case, it is so clear that her continued existence would have harmed no one, that her court-sanctioned murder can never be forgiven, nor should it be.
Art,

I would also guess then, that you are equallly incensed at the failure to count all the Florida Votes in the 2000 Presidental election per the Supreme Court's ruling.

After all, If Al Gore would have been president, we not have went to war in Iraq, we would have saved over 1700 American Lives. As opposed to one brain dead women that has so completely captured your attention.

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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim
Old 06-18-2005, 04:51 PM   #36
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another anim

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In this case, it is so clear that her continued existence would have harmed no one, that her court-sanctioned murder can never be forgiven, nor should it be.
Clear?

Did you know whether or not she was in any kind of pain or suffering?

Given the autopsy results showed that she had no workable brain function whatsoever, what exactly is the benefit of continuing her existence again? Unless the guy that did the autopsy was another liar.

Then you have the costs of keeping her alive. Edit: I note that later in this thread you lament closing health care outlets due to costs of illegal aliens...so spending money hand over fist keeping a vegetable alive:good, spending that money to keep a healthy person alive that isnt a US resident: bad.

So which is it...did she have enough going on upstairs that keeping her alive was worth it, although that amount of brain function could indicate the ability to feel pain and suffering, or was there not enough going on up there to feel pain and suffering, in which case there was no benefit to throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year into keeping her alive?
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 04:53 PM   #37
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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I would also guess then, that you are equallly incensed at the failure to count all the Florida Votes in the 2000 Presidental election per the Supreme Court's ruling.
I would have been fine with a recount of the whole state- not with a recount only of the cherry-picked counties Mr. Lockbox demanded.

And as disgusted as I am with Bush (not for Iraq- which I think will turn out to be a good decision- but for his failure to protect our borders from being overrun by illegals) the thought of a Gore presidency still creeps me out.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 04:57 PM   #38
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

Hmm...

Good decisions: Killing 100,000 iraqis and ~2000 american kids over lies and bad intelligence.

Bad decisions: The governor of florida not ignoring a court order and seizing a woman in violation of the law, not stopping illegal immigrants that form most of the low end of the economy in several states in the southwest.

Got it.
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 05:04 PM   #39
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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Did you know whether or not she was in any kind of pain or suffering?
I believe her brother and sister when they described the terror they saw in her eyes at the very end. You don't. That's fine.

I believe her family, and the videos I saw, and the nurses from the early years, who said she recognized and interacted with them and looked forward to these visits. You don't. Cool.

I do not care whether she could have been rehabilitated- she probably couldn't be. I think she should have been left to her real family to care for her as best they could. You don't. Groovy.

We will not change each others minds. I think I'm done with this.

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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..
Old 06-18-2005, 05:11 PM   #40
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Re: Apparently we're going to beat this dead horse until it becomes another animal..

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not stopping illegal immigrants that form most of the low end of the economy in several states in the southwest.

Got it.
and who have destroyed large chunks of the health care infrastructure of those states. No, they DON'T pay their own way.
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