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Old 06-27-2007, 01:36 PM   #21
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Yea this redesign of the interface is another constraint to rollout. Each app has to be reengineered to use the touchscreen. As Al's picture illustrates, you would not want traditional browser overheads. But that is already a constraint on using the web from cell phones.
Not exactly. OSX takes care of the interface - the app is going to treat themulti-touch inputs the same as the equivalent mousing commands.

a better look (video) at the web browser here:

Apple - iPhone - TV Ads - Watered Down

Sure, you can only do so much on a screen that size, but they do a good job within that constraint. - better than you might think.


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The other constraint is AT&T. Yuck!
Well, one thing you must consider here, is that, ummm, well, and... OK you're right. Cingular stinks.

I suspect people are going to rely more and more on the WiFi connection as time goes on.

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Old 06-27-2007, 02:55 PM   #22
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Al.. that looks like a full version of Firefox; mobile versons further reduce the header/tools to save on real estate and do other funky display mgmt. stuff:
Yes, that's right. But whenever you remove something from the screen, you make it more cumbersome to get to.



For example, remove the back button, and every time you want to go back, you have to first get the back button back.

The Apple ads make it look like browsing on the iPhone will be as easy as browsing on a laptop. I hope that reading, at least, is a good experience on the iPhone, since I would like eBooks to take off some day.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:10 PM   #23
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In addition, browser access makes the SW platform independent (any version of Windows, OSX, Linux - all the same for the client).
-ERD50
That's true only if the developer keeps in mind the common parameters and capabilities of the various browsers. I keep running into MS IE developers that apparently think that is the only thing on the planet, and they use functions that are only present in the IE browser, causing other browsers to break or display improperly. If they develop for the Mac supported browsers - Safari or FireFox, then that shouldn't be a problem for other browsers as well.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:39 PM   #24
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That's true only if the developer keeps in mind the common parameters and capabilities of the various browsers. I keep running into MS IE developers that apparently think that is the only thing on the planet, and they use functions that are only present in the IE browser, causing other browsers to break or display improperly. If they develop for the Mac supported browsers - Safari or FireFox, then that shouldn't be a problem for other browsers as well.
Whitestick, I understand what you are saying, but please allow me to do a little bit of technical nit-picking. From wiki 'browser'

Quote:
Protocols and standards

Web browsers communicate with Web servers primarily using HTTP (hypertext transfer protocol) to fetch webpages. ... The most commonly used HTTP is HTTP/1.1, which is fully defined in RFC 2616. HTTP/1.1 has its own required standards that Internet Explorer does not fully support, but most other current-generation Web browsers do.
So, developers don't need to code 'for Safari, FireFox, etc', they just need to code per standards. After that, it is up to the browser to de-code it correctly, something that IE is not good at and Safari is.

And as you point out, developers end up coding to account for IE's peculiarities. Sometimes this happens because Microsoft builds these peculiarities into the tools they provide the developers - and then other compliant browsers appear to be 'broken'. Coincidence, or monopolistic practice?

Ohhh - more 'good stuff' from wiki:

Quote:
Safari 2 was the first browser to pass the Acid2 test.

Although Internet Explorer has also been moving towards better CSS, its author, Microsoft, has publicly stated that Acid2 is not one of their primary focuses, and that Internet Explorer 7 does not pass the test.[5]

Acid2 is a test case designed by the Web Standards Project to identify web page rendering flaws in browsers and authoring tools.
So little Apple can make a compliant browser, and Microsoft 'chooses not too'? Interesting, no?

Thanks -ERD50
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:39 PM   #25
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I think this is going to be a blockbuster product that will earn AAPL billions in profit and goodwill. If I were an early adopter (EA) I'd probably want one. But I am not even close to an EA, Heck, I only bought an I-pod 2 months ago! SO, I'll wait and see what happens.

PS - I love my I-pod. I wish I'd bought it sooner!
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:59 PM   #26
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Oh, I forgot to mention, Apple has released a (beta) version of Safari for Windows.

Since that web browser on the iPhone is Safari, it looks like Apple thought it would be good if Windows users with an iPhone had Safari on their Windows machine, too. This should also encourage developers to code per standards. After all, those iPhone buyers are probably big spenders, so I would think web sites would want to make sure they present properly on a compliant browser, like Safari.

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Old 06-28-2007, 03:28 AM   #27
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Apple has released a (beta) version of Safari for Windows.
Yeah, and I remember seeing some bad publicity about security issues w/in 48 hours of its being released. I think that was the DUMBEST Apple move I've seen lately.. Why risk even coming in contact with inevitable security glitches when you should stick to your own knitting? How could they ever hope to troubleshoot it to the extent MS can with their own product? Why even chance going there? Safari is fine, but I don't see what they have to gain by having Windows folks run Safari, especially since there are other decent browsers as an alternate to IE; diehard PC-users are not going to be won over to Apple by dint of a browser.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:57 AM   #28
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Yeah, and I remember seeing some bad publicity about security issues w/in 48 hours of its being released. I think that was the DUMBEST Apple move I've seen lately.. Why risk even coming in contact with inevitable security glitches when you should stick to your own knitting? How could they ever hope to troubleshoot it to the extent MS can with their own product?
True, however:

1) It's a beta.
2) Fixes were released in a few days.
3) It's a beta.
4) MS is still patching IE:

CNET News.com 09 May 2007 Microsoft's MS07-027 update fixes six flaws in Internet Explorer that could be exploited through malicious websites.

5) It's a beta
6) If Apple shows a better record of keeping Safari secure than Microsoft does with IE, that should be good PR.


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Why even chance going there? Safari is fine, but I don't see what they have to gain by having Windows folks run Safari, especially since there are other decent browsers as an alternate to IE; diehard PC-users are not going to be won over to Apple by dint of a browser.
Safari is the iPhone browser. Apple wants web developers to follow standards so that compliant browsers (and therefore the iPhone) work well. The higher the adoption of Safari, the more pressure on web developers to code correctly, rather than code to IE 'quirks'.

I suspect the iTunes interface for the iPhone will 'encourage' a Safari download for Windows, once it is out of beta.

It's all part of a plan. Since 1997, Steve Job's plans have been working quite well. AAPL was around $4-$5 (split adjusted) when Jobs returned in 1997. Over 120 recently. Odds are, he knows what he's doing, IMO.

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Old 06-28-2007, 09:08 AM   #29
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AAuuuuuggghhh! Stopppp with the torture!! I SHOULDA BOUGHT AAPL!! :-)))

You're right ERD50.. I didn't think about the phone aspect at all when I formulated that opinion.
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:26 AM   #30
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the At&t is a killer for me, i recently switched because their service is terrible around here and i couldn't use for conference calls etc. cuz of dropped service...
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:33 AM   #31
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I did not read all the replies.

1) What is the baudrate for internet access? Both up and downstream?

2) I assume unlimited internet is limited to the 50 states. Can it be used outside the US?
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:21 AM   #32
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1) I seem to recall about 150k with claims for much higher
2) Only in US AT&T (Cingular).

I'll bet they released Safari for Windoze so that developers do not need an iPhone to develop to that interface.
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:52 PM   #33
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AAuuuuuggghhh! Stopppp with the torture!! I SHOULDA BOUGHT AAPL!! :-)))

lol i hear ya. i have it here in my little excel file of "was gonna buy" at 78 about 6 months back. instead i threw the $$ in a roth with vanguard
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #34
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1) I seem to recall about 150k with claims for much higher
That's not bad. I wonder if you can connect to your laptop so you can use the big screen and keyboard for internet access?
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:21 AM   #35
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AAuuuuuggghhh! Stopppp with the torture!! I SHOULDA BOUGHT AAPL!! :-)))
This is exactly the reason I started buying individual stocks.

So lemme get this straight: You passed on the AAPL IPO and have avoided buying it every trading day since then? Or did you think about it once and decide to pass on it and never found a good "entry point"??

Go scrub their last 10Q through a spreadsheet model. Or decide that iPhone is going to boost their stock price like the iPod did, and then go buy yourself a couple thousand bucks' worth of shares. If AAPL goes up, then you're a freakin' genius and you have the (unrealized) cap gains to spring for a celebration dinner. If it goes down, then you're paying tuition at the School of Investing Experience. Either way you can sleep soundly at night knowing that you finally chose to buy AAPL.

Lots cheaper than psychotherapy, and it'll help you decide if you want to persist in torturing yourself about individual stocks or if you'd rather just buy an index fund (and get a real life).

Next we can try to determine if you're one of those unbelieving infidels who thinks that Berkshire Hathaway is overpriced too...
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:47 AM   #36
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Next we can try to determine if you're one of those unbelieving infidels who thinks that Berkshire Hathaway is overpriced too...
It has been getting better every month since December, down 1.8% YTD and still:
1) looking for a new CEO, and
2) sitting on a huge pile of cash.

(I cannot believe the hype surrounding iPhone - talk about free publicity!)
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:09 PM   #37
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Nords, I'm going to start a new thread on this in the Money section..

Short answer. Yes. Not from the IPO, but I have thought about it at least a few times a year, every year, for the last 15 years or so. Not exactly "every trading day" but it might as well be since I am tendentially very buy&hold and don't look at weekly or daily or monthly price fluctuations.
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:23 PM   #38
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that company has been miserable in customer service as well as network quality.
Rich and Bright Eyed, your comments about AT&T are soooo tactful, I would go off the deep end on that, but another time.

Since I keep my phone expenses down to $15.40/mo. and possess a rarely-used "complementary" iPod, my take on this may be irrelevant. Any one in line for an iPhone today will probably get on TV. The image from the news segment can be stored on the newly acquired iPhone and later spliced into a movie, "Adventures in Apple Mania." How cool is that? The iPhone may become a scarce collectible, will certainly have a place in tech museum history.

In an effort to spice up my commute, I decided to get off the bus at a different stop and walk in from another direction. I saw the line from the bus, thinking the folks were waiting for a soup kitchen to open but then realized they were at the Apple store (it was 8:15 a.m.) So I changed my route to check out the line which was ONLY one block long (I say sell Apple stock now! that is, if the line was not limited to a set number). The first two guys in line had high end pup tents. The first guy was using his current cell phone, the next was pounding away at his laptop (I could see the Apple logo, maybe hes the guy who blogs about waiting in line), next guy had a cardboard mini golf course, the next few looked like they were trying to create a "happening" (sixties envy?), and so on, all in the most fashionable jackets and hairdos (only one bi-color mohawk which seems retro to me).
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #39
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That's not bad. I wonder if you can connect to your laptop so you can use the big screen and keyboard for internet access?
If you turn on your wireless on your laptop and set up an adhoc network to connect to the iPhone, and set up routing within the laptop to route through it and out the wired ethernet port that will need to connect up to get to the Internet, then yes you should be able to connect using your laptop screen and keyboard, and then copy the required or acquired files to the iPhone.
If you want to use the screen and keyboard to control the iPhone, you will need to have the same mentioned network, and something like Apple Remote Desktop server to take over the client, assuming that the iPhone is running ARD client, which is unknown at this point.
If you have a wireless network to which both the iPhone and the laptop connect, then you can skip the part about the adhoc setup and routing, but will still need the ARD, probably. May be some open systems program that will do the ARD thing, but I'm unfamiliar with it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:34 PM   #40
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My DD asked me if we could switch are cell phone carrier to ATT. I did not have a clue as to the reason why, but it was of course due to the new phone.

She has had the IPOD for quite awhile and uses it frequently. Most all of her friends have it also. I was given an MP3 player as a retirement gift and enjoyed it, but after seeing how much easier and how much more the IPOD holds, have IPOD envy. As soon as my MP3 player breaks, I am getting an IPOD. She will be married soon and they are trying to everything for their wedding as cheaply as possible. (We are giving them a certain amount and anything left over they can keep. The amount that we are giving them is modest, because my DH thinks that money spent on weddings is a waste!) Anyway, she is downloading the music to her IPOD, connecting it to a computer at the church and having the music go through the church's speakers. I had no clue that you could even do such a thing. Young people are really in to the electronics that enhance their lives. She and her friends can text message each other more quickly that I can open my cell phone and dial the number!
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