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Old 02-22-2016, 08:13 AM   #141
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This shouldn't come as a surprise. Apple's been clear on their stance against Big Brother since the beginning:


That was then, a commercial

This is Now

This image of Mark Zuckerberg says so much about our future | The Verge
"
The image above looks like concept art for a new dystopian sci-fi film. A billionaire superman with a rictus grin, striding straight past human drones, tethered to machines and blinded to reality by blinking plastic masks. Golden light shines down on the man as he strides past his subjects, cast in gloom, toward a stage where he will accept their adulation. Later that night, he will pore across his vast network and read their praise, heaped upon him in superlatives, as he drives what remains of humanity forward to his singular vision. "

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Old 02-22-2016, 08:38 AM   #142
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Maybe it's something more craven like the next time there's a big attack, they'll say we couldn't stop it because they had encrypted iPhones that we couldn't tap. ...
Is it "craven" if it is true? One could say it would be "craven" to NOT have these tools to help stop the attack.

And I don't know if it would have an effect or not, but until we know that, it seems a bit out there to call it "craven" (Contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly).

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Even if they can crack phones, it's doubtful terrorist are going to call, text or instant message other terrorists to outline time and place and the exact nature of their attacks over smart phones.
A number of plots have been stopped by what appeared to be pretty stupid moves by would-be terrorists. Maybe we need input from real professionals before we reduce this to TV drama levels?

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Old 02-22-2016, 10:05 AM   #143
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Maybe it's something more craven like the next time there's a big attack, they'll say we couldn't stop it because they had encrypted iPhones that we couldn't tap.

They've been trying this for a while now, going so far as to blame phone and software makers for terrorist attacks.

http://www.wired.com/2015/11/paris-a...ion-backdoors/

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...n-says-bratton

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“ISIS, taking advantage of the technology that the head of the FBI has been complaining about, I’ve been complaining about, going dark, the ability to go dark, I think you’re going to see that playing a significant factor in this event"
The European investigators didn't find what the Usual Suspects claimed, though:

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/18/...rror-suspects/
Quote:
Yet news emerging from Paris — as well as evidence from a Belgian ISIS raid in January — suggests that the ISIS terror networks involved were communicating in the clear, and that the data on their smartphones was not encrypted.
After this came out, the Usual Suspects tried to pave this over by pointing out that some phones had WhatsApp or Telegram on them, programs which support messaging with encryption. Note that the French investigators already had the clear text messages about the attack sent via SMS at this time.






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Old 02-22-2016, 10:21 AM   #144
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It turns out that the really big budgets and high prestige jobs are in the data collection part of the spook biz. The analysis part, picking out the meaningful bits from the torrents of selfies and errand lists captured, not so much.

Would you rather have a budget of billions for construction, and frequent meetings with c-suite folks with little chance of embarrassing leaks, or would you like the challenge of interviewing, getting clearances, hiring, and training some 20,000 junior analysts a year to eventually get to the over 100,000 folks needed to dig through the data haul after the filters have tossed the dross? Knowing that one new Snowden in that city of new hires will sink your career?


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Old 02-22-2016, 11:05 AM   #145
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...Would you rather have a budget of billions for construction, and frequent meetings with c-suite folks with little chance of embarrassing leaks...
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M. Paquette, to get to the heart of your question: The older I become, the more I desire that the government spend big money on the prevention of embarrassing leaks. I am certain that I am also speaking for many other older Americans, both men and women, whom wish to reclaim at least some portion of their dignity.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:10 AM   #146
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M. Paquette, to get to the heart of your question: The older I become, the more I desire that the government spend big money on the prevention of embarrassing leaks. I am certain that I am also speaking for many other older Americans, both men and women, whom wish to reclaim at least some portion of their dignity.
+1 Classic!!
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:32 AM   #147
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M. Paquette, to get to the heart of your question: The older I become, the more I desire that the government spend big money on the prevention of embarrassing leaks. I am certain that I am also speaking for many other older Americans, both men and women, whom wish to reclaim at least some portion of their dignity.

I suppose it Depends...


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Old 02-22-2016, 12:06 PM   #148
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I suppose it Depends...
And once again, we will find that the government Pampers and gives special treatment to large donors/supporters.

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Old 02-22-2016, 01:32 PM   #149
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Things get more interesting each day.

If a company owns the phone you use, it can be unlocked if software to do so is installed. Cost? $4.00 per month. In this case it was paid for but not installed on the shooters phone.

Software could have unlocked San Bernadino shooter's iPhone after Apple refused | Daily Mail Online
The service, which costs just $4 per month, per phone, had been paid for by local government officials but was never installed on the phone.
County spokesman David Wert confirmed they had a contract with MobileIron Inc, but did not install it on any of the inspectors' phones.
He added that here is no countywide policy on the matter and departments make their own decisions.
MobileIron has also confirmed that if the software were installed on the iPhone, it would unlock it.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:59 PM   #150
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M. Paquette, to get to the heart of your question: The older I become, the more I desire that the government spend big money on the prevention of embarrassing leaks. I am certain that I am also speaking for many other older Americans, both men and women, whom wish to reclaim at least some portion of their dignity.

Redduck, I would much rather that the gvmt actually stops doing things that are so out of bounds in the view of most people that a leak of it will embarrass them. If you do not do these things, there is nothing to leak.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:02 PM   #151
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I just want to point out to the people talking about getting info from other phones to stop some terrorist plot.... this is a strawman in this context.

The reports say that after Apple unlocks the phone they can destroy the code that is necessary to get in.... so the ability would not be there in time to stop a plot... unless of course they are lying about what they want...
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:32 PM   #152
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M. Paquette, to get to the heart of your question: The older I become, the more I desire that the government spend big money on the prevention of embarrassing leaks. I am certain that I am also speaking for many other older Americans, both men and women, whom wish to reclaim at least some portion of their dignity.
Nice argument there my friend redduck, but you are not speaking on my behalf, I would like to add.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:22 PM   #153
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It's craven because the FBI and other agencies would be trying to deflect blame from their failures to smart phone makers.

The past couple of years they've been pushing this propaganda about needing encryption back doors to keep the children safe. So pure demogoguery.

Gee when there's a shooting spree, nobody blames the gun makers or the NRA. Guns kill, smart phones do not.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:28 PM   #154
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Gee when there's a shooting spree, nobody blames the gun makers or the NRA. Guns kill, smart phones do not.
While I agree with your main point, I would like to point out that tons of people blame the NRA and gun makers. Luckily, ineffectively so far.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:30 PM   #155
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How about we leave guns and the NRA out of this, eh?
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:06 PM   #156
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Well the FBI and other agencies chose to put the onus on the maker of information and communication devices, rather than on the makers of weapons which greatly facilitates the upping of fatalities in these situations.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:08 PM   #157
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FWIW, I heard a security expert state that iPhones have a safe guard built into them to prevent being attacked via an altered version of the OS or use of an older more vulnerable version of the OS.

Every iPhone has a unique key that Apple keeps stored away. It's not part of an algorithm that can be figured out, so, in theory, Apple could possibly maybe find a way to get into a unique phone while not creating anything that would threaten the security of all iPhones If when it gets out into the wild.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:40 PM   #158
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FWIW, I heard a security expert state that iPhones have a safe guard built into them to prevent being attacked via an altered version of the OS or use of an older more vulnerable version of the OS.

Every iPhone has a unique key that Apple keeps stored away. It's not part of an algorithm that can be figured out, so, in theory, Apple could possibly maybe find a way to get into a unique phone while not creating anything that would threaten the security of all iPhones If when it gets out into the wild.
Alas, this won't be a 'one and done' sort of thing.

Customer Letter - FAQ - Apple
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Law enforcement agents around the country have already said they have hundreds of iPhones they want Apple to unlock if the FBI wins this case. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks. Of course, Apple would do our best to protect that key, but in a world where all of our data is under constant threat, it would be relentlessly attacked by hackers and cybercriminals.
This becomes a set of full time jobs at Apple opening locked phones for every law enforcement officer able to rub case law and a magistrate together.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:44 PM   #159
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Apple can set up a secure computer room for this purpose, the same as the DoD or its contractors use for classified data processing. Then, they can charge good money for unlocking phones captured from criminals, and make some money doing it.

Note that this kind of unlocking is forensic work after a criminal or suspect has been apprehended, not something that a FBI agent is going to do out in the field to snoop on innocent people in real time.

About leaking the code, I am sure that software houses like Microsoft and Apple would know how to protect their source codes, as they have been doing it all these years to keep proprietary software from falling into competitors' hand. And here, the forensic lab involves even fewer people, unlike production software.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:39 PM   #160
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Apple has complied with these legal requests to bypass the lock on iPhones many times in the past (about 70 times, according to this NPR report). Apple designed security features that are more difficult to bypass in their newer iPhones (using iOS9), and they'd need to come up with new software/procedures to allow them to do the same thing for their iOS9 phones as they've done before, but they aren't claiming they can't do it.

The argument that another government (China, etc) might ask Apple to unlock an iOS9 phone if they do it for the USG, and that this is a reason not to assist in this US investigation, appears fairly weak. Another government could demand that Apple do that anyway, and refuse to allow Apple to sell phones in those countries if they won't comply.

The argument that Apple shouldn't assist in this case because that will just unleash a flood of questionable requests from other US authorities seems to ignore the fact that these agencies have already been requesting this assistance for years and Apple has been providing it without any apparent abuses or difficulties.

Apple is not being asked to add a new back door to their phones or anything that will make them easier to hack. They are being ordered to provide technical assistance in a lawful US investigation. If Apple develops a technical means to bypass the security measures that they have engineered into their phones/OS, presumably they will have a darn good business reason to keep those tools/methods well secured. Apple has all kinds of sensitive data already (their proprietary source code, customer financial data, etc), keeping this new software and procedures secure would require the same measures they already use to protect this other information.

As a practical matter, dissidents, criminals, terrorists, or just common citizens who want to communicate without being observed by a government probably shouldn't depend on Apple or any other corporation to protect their secrets against requests by these governments ("good" governments or "bad" governments).

IMO, Apple is using this as a marketing opportunity. If they prevail, they have proven themselves to be champions of privacy (never mind their past actions). If they lose, they get to say that they are assisting only after fighting the good fight.

For comparison/background, here's a fairly concise summary of the types of information Google supplies to US authorities under various circumstances. There's nothing unusual about US companies being compelled to assist in lawful investigations. The degree of assistance requested in the case of Apple and the Farook investigation may be unusual, but that's what it is--just a matter of degree, not new legal ground.

Apple is not being asked to help the US government oppress citizens or illegally spy on people. They are being asked to assist the FBI in getting information off a government-owned phone (County of San Bernardino) as part of a legitimate criminal investigation. There may be other future cases where their similar assistance keeps innocent people put of jail, prevents future crimes, etc.
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