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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-07-2007, 06:05 PM   #21
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Ugh...dont even get me started. The wife was nervous that all of our baby photos were only on two laptops and two external backup units, and it was a pain to plug the printers into the laptops to print.

So I now have a mirrored raid server attached to a color and b&w laser, wirelessly connected at 108Mb/s to our two laptops, with the documents auto backed up to an external drive and automatically replicated to both laptops in the background.

Feels like i'm back at work... :P
Argh. I have a couple of Linux servers in the basement tied to the Windows PC and laptop with Samba. I had everything mirrored down there but when I started keeping a lot of high resolution photos I got low on disk space (these are just old PCs) so I blew away the back up. I better get something set up soon - I'm going bare for now
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-07-2007, 06:10 PM   #22
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Yes, film photography is as dead as paper-based books will be.
That is a joke, right Al?
That's what a camera store guy said in 1998 when I told him that film's days were numbered. "Digital cameras will never match the quality of film."

I predict that commercial novels will no longer be printed after 2018.

Seriously, the only thing that's holding electronic books back are those pesky intellectual property rights issues. People think "I can never give up the feel of a real book," but once they can have as much reading material in a reader as they have music in an iPod, things will change. At CFB's posting rate, he probably reads a novel's worth of text on his computer every week (you do read the other posts, right, CFB ?).

The reader devices may need improvement, but if everyone wants one, the quality will go up, and the prices down, until they are easier to read than a paper book.

However, I don't think the copyright issues are easily handled. I can drive 30 miles to the public library, and take out a book, and remember to drive 30 miles to take it back, but I can't download the same book to a reader.

Think about how silly physical books are. John Grisham writes a book, and we take tons of tree pulp, mash it into thin sheets with huge machines, cut them up, and send them to the publisher. The novel, in digital form, is sent to a machine that spits more tons of a black liquid onto the paper, and a machine cuts this paper and glues it to other stuff, and the millions of these physical things are boxed up and shipped around the country to thousands of locations.

And we use this archaic process just so that John Grisham gets paid. I agree that he should be paid, but what is this, 1440 AD?
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-07-2007, 06:17 PM   #23
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

I'm sorry Al, did you say something?

The scary part is that this is about 10% of what I read...I've got ten tabs open right now and i'm only on the second one...and i've only got an hour before the dang baby wakes up!

Hey Don...check out the dell outlet site for a nice refurbed core 2 duo machine with one of the newer intel chipsets with the hardware sata-ii raid built right in. You should be able to snag one with a 250-320GB drive in it for under $400 and then toss in a second 320GB drive for $30-50 on sale. Its sweet...the storage manager just kicks in and says "would you like me to mirror this other drive you have?...okay...you may continue on with your business". Very fast for a mirrored pair, I dont see much degradation at all. Broke the pair and rebuilt it a couple of times just to see how it worked...no problems.

Pretty nice iron for any video format conversions too.

(I'm quite sure you can find at least good 3 rationalizations for buying a new machine in the paragraphs above)
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-07-2007, 10:28 PM   #24
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

Are you guys going to be around in 97 years so your great great grand kids can see the pictures?

I think I'll stick to film for a while longer.

If I lose this one it's because I can't remember which drawer it's in.

The old Chigger Scratchers Gang, 1915. My grand dad in the white pants sitting on the hood.

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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 12:21 AM   #25
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by HaHa
That is a joke, right Al?

Ha
I'm trying to figure out what the joke is. Is this a comment that implies that both paper based books and film are still alive and well, or that both paper based books and film are dead, or . . .

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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:23 AM   #26
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

today the digital processing is as much a part of photography as the taking pictures part. the added benefits are huge especially if shooting in raw. i can just about re-shoot the entire picture from my computer after the fact.

in fact i havent been active on this forum the last month or so as every moment i have been cramming and learning more and more about my new camera and the processing afterwards. no more film for me!
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 09:48 AM   #27
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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today the digital processing is as much a part of photography as the taking pictures part. the added benefits are huge especially if shooting in raw. i can just about re-shoot the entire picture from my computer after the fact.
IMO this is a real boon to professional liars photographers, but a loss to reality.

Ha
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 10:42 AM   #28
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
The wife was nervous that all of our baby photos were only on two laptops and two external backup units...
The beauty of digital storage of photos is - burn the images to a DVDs (as files). Give one set of copies to a friend or put it in the safe deposit box. If disaster strikes, you can always print them at costco again from the files.

Unless by 'external backup units' you are saying they are off-site. That would be good.

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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 10:51 AM   #29
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

You havent seen the studies on the shelf life of home-burned data storage cd's and dvd's.

Really good media might last 10-20 years. Most of it might be unreadable in 5.

And you should see what a 2 year old does with them when he comes across them.

We've got an external disk drive in a box in the closet at my dads house. I update it with our pictures, videos and important documents a couple of times a year. My in-laws also have a copy of the videos and photos on their computer.

Since we're mirrored raid, with two laptop copies, the server is backed up to one external drive and the laptops backed up to another, with two offsite backups in different parts of the state...I think I can breathe easy...

Really impressed with the power draw on the new desktops. This 965 based dual core dual drive raid machine draws about 75 watts when running and 2 watts when in fast-wake suspend mode. Beats the crap out of the 250 watts my old pentium 4 desktop used. Heck, I'll practically pay for the server in reduced electric costs over its lifetime.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 12:26 PM   #30
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Is she going to take care of the configuration, maintenance, & backups?

Because speaking as a married veteran, I have a very bad feeling about this...
If I can talk her into it. She does this as part of her current job.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 12:40 PM   #31
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Heck, I'll practically pay for the server in reduced electric costs over its lifetime.
As I recall, last time someone used that logic on you it ended up parking a Lexus in your driveway...
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 01:08 PM   #32
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
You havent seen the studies on the shelf life of home-burned data storage cd's and dvd's.

Really good media might last 10-20 years. Most of it might be unreadable in 5.
Yes, I need to go back and check some of my older discs. Copying to new media every five years is probably a good idea. After a few cycles of that, better technology will be available.

Buying or using a free off-site storage is probably more practical.

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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:40 PM   #33
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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As I recall, last time someone used that logic on you it ended up parking a Lexus in your driveway...
And the logic is working fine. As of right now its a year old and has about 2800 miles on it. As should be apparent, it'll have under 50k miles on it when Gabe gets his drivers license and he can put the next 50-100k on it.

Worst case, what do you think a 7 year old LS430 with 25,000 miles on it is worth?

It sure isnt an investment but its not as bad a money loser as it looks. If she wanted a humvee or some crappy high depreciation vehicle...probably wouldnt have gone for it.

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Yes, I need to go back and check some of my older discs. Copying to new media every five years is probably a good idea. After a few cycles of that, better technology will be available.
Using them for video and music isnt as much of a problem...bad spots are more or less run by. But for data, one bad sector in the wrong spot could ruin your whole day.

Thing is, the newer media are being slapped out with lower quality than the old stuff. I still keep some old 4x cd-r's and some nearly original dvd+r's around for the important stuff. The manufacturers were so nervous about the weird range of half-spec and 95% spec recorders that the quality stuff was of pretty dang decent quality.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:46 PM   #34
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

I copy all my data to punch cards.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:48 PM   #35
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

Super. How many hanging chads have you got?

Come on. Theres room for at least 4 quips, jokes or offhand remarks available...
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:48 PM   #36
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

Frame of reference... I have a Canon Digital Rebel XT, 8mp. I enlarged a couple of photos from my holiday travels to SD to 11x14. These were full-res, jpg format, and they look purdy damn good to me!! But I wear bifocals... :P

Next trip to a scenic locale, I'm trying RAW format.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 04:57 PM   #37
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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I copy all my data to punch cards.
I remember when Monterey's Naval Postgraduate School threatened to take out the computer center's card reader in 1986.

Professor Hamming (yeah, that guy with the codes) was still teaching at the time. He and his punch-card pioneer peers led a mutiny that would've done Bligh proud.

The problem was that no one was around (certainly not employed or retired and perhaps not even alive) to keep it working, let alone find parts. So the admiral had to get involved and over the next two years those guys were dragged kicking & screaming from FORTRAN decks to diskettes. Eventually the card reader was shipped to the Computing Museum.

I know how they feel. I'm still trying to give away a color printer with a parallel-port cable...
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-08-2007, 09:35 PM   #38
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by Nords
I remember when Monterey's Naval Postgraduate School threatened to take out the computer center's card reader in 1986.

Professor Hamming (yeah, that guy with the codes) was still teaching at the time. He and his punch-card pioneer peers led a mutiny that would've done Bligh proud.

The problem was that no one was around (certainly not employed or retired and perhaps not even alive) to keep it working, let alone find parts. So the admiral had to get involved and over the next two years those guys were dragged kicking & screaming from FORTRAN decks to diskettes. Eventually the card reader was shipped to the Computing Museum.

I know how they feel. I'm still trying to give away a color printer with a parallel-port cable...
I remember back in '85 or so when it was announced that the card punchers and readers would go away. There was much wailing and moaning (not by me).
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-09-2007, 03:28 AM   #39
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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Originally Posted by HFWR
Frame of reference... I have a Canon Digital Rebel XT, 8mp. I enlarged a couple of photos from my holiday travels to SD to 11x14. These were full-res, jpg format, and they look purdy damn good to me!! But I wear bifocals... :P

Next trip to a scenic locale, I'm trying RAW format.
i started shooting raw but to be honest its more a fad than really a big improvement. the files are huge, its extra manipulation and most of the benefits can really be duplicated in jpg editing.

as they say " learn to shoot the picture right the first time"

im still learning so i will probley give raw another month or so buts its hardly worth the extra editing and file sizes.
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past
Old 02-09-2007, 07:22 AM   #40
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Re: Are 35mm camera's becoming a thing of the past

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i started shooting raw but to be honest its more a fad than really a big improvement. the files are huge, its extra manipulation and most of the benefits can really be duplicated in jpg editing.

as they say " learn to shoot the picture right the first time"

im still learning so i will probley give raw another month or so buts its hardly worth the extra editing and file sizes.
Give this a try: set up on a tripod and take a scene in RAW and then again in best Q. Load both into a photo editor and blow them up on your monitor until you can see individual pixels. Compare sections side by side.

I did this with some scanned artwork, comparing the 'original' with a high Q jpg generated by the computer (~ 1/4 the file size IIRC?). I had trouble finding even a few slight differences in the shading of a few pixels. The jpg was very good. I don't know if a camera can do as good a job at it - try it and see.

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