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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 04:16 PM   #21
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notth
Good sources, Art. As usual.

Let me help you further. The largest health care cost (80%+) is keeping drooling vegetables and people who have little hope of long term survival or meaningful existences alive on machines.
Hmmm... You bust him on sources, and then don't have references for your percentages?

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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 04:45 PM   #22
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

The thing is, these arent 'sources' and I knew that all along. They're outfits with an agenda that are simply inventing and extrapolating results to suit their directives, which are clearly stated.

As far as references for the health care cost percentages, we have had a number of discussions where the specific health care costs were identified, with actual numbers from insurers and healthcare providers. If you want them, go look for one of those threads. I didnt start this **** and I'd rather play with my kid in the pool.

The vast majority of health care costs are expended on efforts in the insureds last year of life, in other words, the efforts didnt work.

By the way, I have only a modest interest in illegal aliens, health care for illegal aliens, or terry schiavo. If you actually read anything I've written in these threads, i've simply been pointing out that our troll buddy Art has absolutely no factual or actual information to support his insulting opinions that he chooses to state as facts.

The facts are simple:

We dont know how many illegal aliens receive how much free treatment because there is no metric for measuring this accurately. Someone tries to figure out how many people dont pay for their medical care. Someone else tries to figure out what percentage of them are illegal aliens. There is some good data for the first part. The second part is a guess. The guess depends on the guesser. I've seen numbers for California in the under $100M area from pro-illegal immigrant groups. I've seen numbers north of a billion from the anti illegal immigration people. Its a complete wild ass, out of your butt guess.

We dont know what happened to terry schiavo. We wont know. All I know is I havent seen one question or shred of doubt that hasnt been answered 9 times. This matter was under the closest of scrutiny by people in the executive, legislative and judicial brances at all levels, people with vested interests to 'find the truth', with the 'truth' being that she was alert, alive and her husband a killer. In ten years nobody found anything to support that. In the aftermath, I see nothing that denies it.

Sources of factual information <> people with agendas and opinions.

You can have your own opinions. You can not have your own facts.

Being an insulting troll in the process doesnt improve the matter.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 04:49 PM   #23
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Good point, mog.

That 80%+ stat of his- like most of his information- was pulled out of his used and abused, screwed, blued and tatooed butt, and none of us want to go there. It's the Mother Of All Biohazards.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:04 PM   #24
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notth
As far as references for the health care cost percentages, we have had a number of discussions where the specific health care costs were identified, with actual numbers from insurers and healthcare providers. If you want them, go look for one of those threads. I didnt start this **** and I'd rather play with my kid in the pool.
To be honest, I don't disagree with anything you've said - just pointing out the consistency.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:07 PM   #25
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Good point, mog.

That 80%+ stat of his- like most of his information- was pulled out of his used and abused, screwed, blued and tatooed butt, and none of us want to go there. It's the Mother Of All Biohazards.
Thats really nice Art.

Moghopper...if you're actually interested, search here or on google for 'twenty percent eighty percent chronic insurance'...those keywords will lead you to plenty of insurance company statistics and government health statistics that demonstrate the claim that 80 percent of health care dollars are spent on 20% of the population, largely treating chronic conditions that lead to the end of a persons life, usually within a year. Real dollars, real numbers, no guessing, no hatred of people wearing big hats, no sensationalism to sell a book.

I will also certify that none of those statistics or agencies spent any time in any of my body's orifices. Also I certify that I have no tattoos of any kind.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:14 PM   #26
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notth


I will also certify that none of those statistics or agencies spent any time in any of my body's orifices. Also I certify that I have no tattoos of any kind.
Well that's a relief, I was beginning to worry that I already met you that one trip to Mexico when I....nevermind.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:16 PM   #27
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moghopper
To be honest, I don't disagree with anything you've said - just pointing out the consistency.
When I've been asked to provide a source, I have. When I've asked art for sources, he runs away for a week and then drools nothing of import back.

You just asked for a source, I just showed you how to get one. I sincerely hope that its interesting reading for you.

In this matter, I do have some good reportable first hand experience. My wife (an actual person, not a made up chinese fiancee) works in the emergency room and intensive care units at the local hospital. Our region is very heavy in farming. Sunsweets corporate headquarters is a mile from me...if you're eating sunsweet dried fruit, I smelled it drying when I went out for groceries. Our area is heavy in indian, mexican and hmong immigrants, many of them illegal.

My wife can tell you stories all day long about people hit by trains, brain damaged by drug overdoses, very unpleasant unsuccessful suicide attempts, people over a hundred years old that havent had any meaningful consciousness in months or years, etc. Their families wont let them go. The insurers have no choice but to keep paying out according to the policy terms. The doctors use all means at their disposal to continue life. DNR's and medical documents are rarely consulted before rescusitation is performed.

In the meanwhile, the emergency room is full of white people with drug and alcohol problems with a friggin' cold or some other minor problem that their addiction/abuse is exacerbating, that think they're going to die. They dont pay the bills. They dont even give real names and addresses most of the time. They dont see a lot of illegal immigrants.

Thats what I see. Thats what I know. At no point did I feel like calling anyone with other facts and information a name.

As far as you go though Artie...
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:18 PM   #28
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Well that's a relief, I was beginning to worry that I already met you that one trip to Mexico when I....nevermind.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:50 PM   #29
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notth
search here or on google for 'twenty percent eighty percent chronic insurance'...those keywords will lead you to plenty of insurance company statistics and government health statistics that demonstrate the claim that 80 percent of health care dollars are spent on 20% of the population, largely treating chronic conditions that lead to the end of a persons life, usually within a year.*
For the record:

I searched here and on google for the above keywords exactly as stated: 'twenty percent eighty percent chronic insurance', and got nothing here- a bunch of irrelevant garbage on google.

BIG surprise!

And I must confess to being mildly curious about numbnuts' accusation of lying about my fiancee... why would I bother?
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 05:52 PM   #30
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Only you can tell us Art.

Looks like you suck at googling. No surprise there.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 07:00 PM   #31
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

And just think - it's headed into Friday night here.

We're having fun.

And we're not spending a lot of money.

I mean - we could be out there somewhere spending money and being:

* * UN-FRUGAL!!!!!

Pssst - just trying to up my post count a little - in case guests slow me down this weekend. Just to stay in the pack - so to speak.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-01-2005, 08:54 PM   #32
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Hey, my donkey didn't have a tattoo............
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 05:56 AM   #33
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!




I'd like to shoot that paper-hangin' son of a bitch.
Gen. G. Patton


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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 06:16 AM   #34
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

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Originally Posted by BUM


I'd like to shoot that paper-hangin' son of a bitch.* * *
* * * Gen. G. Patton


"The only good Indian is a dead Indian" Generals Sheridan,
W.T. Sherman and others. And they (native Americans) were here first.
Food for thought.

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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 09:50 AM   #35
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

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And they (native Americans) were here first.
You just HAD to bring that up...
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 10:43 AM   #36
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Riddle me one question batman...

Boy, all of those dirty, typhoid mary immigrants. Immigration is good for the economy. It brings in a new group of motivated people that bring new ideas and hard work. This anti-immigration agenda has been going on for years and is bs.

Word for the day: Xenophobe
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 10:51 AM   #37
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

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Originally Posted by maddythebeagle
Boy, all of those dirty, typhoid mary immigrants.* Immigration is good for the economy. It brings in a new group of motivated people that bring new ideas and hard work. This anti-immigration agenda has been going on for years and is bs.

Word for the day: Genius
Let's fire the Border Patrol, Close the INS, and declare our borders open to all!

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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 12:44 PM   #38
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Whew

Better yet - put our Immigration Service on the other side - all of them - light em them up with radar and IR - and shoot them up with 50 caliber. Sort them out later.

Art - you are just a mild mannered sweetie compared to the boys at the doughnut shop this morning - apparently the 'other agency retiree's (more than one) think 'they' are corrupting the rest of the government - State is possibly beyond help - All this inter - agency co -operation is dragging 'the good guys' down to their level of incompetant boneheadness, etc. etc.

Several bemoaned the fact - that their son's 'went into government'.

Looks like Homeland Security needs some PR(we're in this together) work in my small corner of the universe. Also sending our State dept( as enemy combatants) to Gitmo was offered up as an possible solution - educational wise.

I sayed out of this one - discresion being the better part of valor - ate two cherry filled pastries instead of my usual one custard filled.

BTY - after the sugar doughnuts kicked in - things mellowed out.
Gonna take a while to sort things out - 'hang in there son'and get that govt. pension like I did - etc., etc'.
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 01:13 PM   #39
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Edited to mention that I just finished reading the rest of the board's posts and belatedly realized that "Numbnuts" isn't Art's fond presidential pejorative.

I gotta admit, Art, your skillful use of cute anatomical nicknames does make your arguments more convincing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
“The pork tapeworm, which thrives in Latin America and Mexico, is showing up along the U.S. border, threatening to ravage victims with symptoms ranging from seizures to death. ...
Let me hijack Art's rant for a minute to mention that Dave Barry could do an excellent column with this topic sentence.* Quite a mental image, too.

OK, Art, it's yours again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPatrick
Step 1: Close the border
Step 2: Make sure step 1 is working
Step 3: Establish a guest worker program. *Some pretty good ones have been floated, but all lack step one.
Step 4: Pound on the heads of employer violators.
Step 5: Check on step one again.
Step 6: Abolish the nonsense of illegal babies becoming automatic citizens.
Does anyone know if closing the border (and checking on step one) costs more or less taxpayer money than the status quo?* Maybe those illegal babies will pay enough taxes to make this idea sustainable.

BTW, TH, I believe this is a masterful demonstration of reverse trolling.* You've incited Art to new "heights" of fervent posting in an attempt to refute your critiques.* How does one judge the success of your tactic?* By the ratio of Art's words to your question (no doubt a number well into three-four digits)?* By the ratio of the number of hours of his life he's wasted on your few seconds of ripostes?* (Another big number.)* By the quality of the ensuing "dialogue"?* (Let's not go there.)* By the total number of days it takes Art to flame out in a spectacular "Farewell" rant?* By that Usenet classic indicator, the number of posts it takes for the word "Nazi" to surface?
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!
Old 07-02-2005, 02:23 PM   #40
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Re: Numbnuts thinks ILLEGAL aliens are good for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
Let's fire the Border Patrol, Close the INS, and declare our borders open to all!

How about we close the borders and not let anyone else in until we sort out this mess?

JG
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