Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-19-2010, 01:06 PM   #61
Recycles dryer sheets
e86s54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Yes, I am grateful to be here, to have houses and even an RV to spend the rest of my life in pursuit of happiness, and I will pursue it to Alaska and Prince Edward Island if I need to (Don't know about going beyond that though ).
Beyond that is the best! It's called Newfoundland! Nicest people and exquisite scenery!
__________________

__________________
e86s54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-19-2010, 01:17 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,449
If the entire world goes down the tube, well, I am OK as we are all in this together.

If the US living standards decline because of the rest of the world is catching up, well, it is fair that if they work harder and smarter while we are slacking off, they deserve to improve their living. The latter bothers me only because of the way corporate America has been carrying their business in the last 20 years; Dilbert anyone? Ask Brewer about his workplaces with all the stupid meaningless slogans and empty mission statements. I have seen plenty of similar BS at the places that I have been. It was not like that when I started working 30 years ago.

Still, not all US corporations are that bad. There are still innovative and productive companies to own. We just have to work harder to find them. And of course owning some foreign equities wouldn't hurt either. What else does one do? Not all pessimistic posters here advocate owning gold and lead and K-rations, I don't think. And even the ones that do, well, they amuse me but do not bother me at all.


PS. Eh, about Newfoundland, I've got to get my RV out of the state of AZ first!

In fact, all this big talk about Alaska and PEI is so that I will have to keep my words and to actually do it. Will have photos to post as proofs that we make it there (will buy t-shirts too, of course) .
__________________

__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 01:27 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Yep, a little side job selling on eBay sure doesn't hurt when the market goes in the dumper.

It sure did not hurt but I'd have to sell full time to make up for my losses and the additional meds needed for these drops.
.
Speaking of meds ,we went in a Pharmacy in Cozumel and they sell absolutely everything over the counter including Cialis & Viagra . That is probably why the Americans living in Mexico are so happy !
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 01:27 PM   #64
Recycles dryer sheets
e86s54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 190
I work in a small office with two strong believers of the looming financial apocalypse. It can be a very depressing place at times.

My view of them is that they are the 'scared' of almost everything to the point that they are paralyzed and have difficulty enjoying life. One once had an ill conceived small business fail and has not taken a single risk in his life since then. He doesn't go on vacation, doesn't partake in any social activities beyond eating and his stress is making him grow old very quickly.

So they are both hoarding cash (even if they believe all fiat currencies will be worthless soon), buy some gold and silver (they store at home I believe), purchased guns for self defense and are constantly looking for properties in the woods (where the wives step in and veto the potential moves).

It's not that I don't believe in it completely, but try and take a realistic, sober and unemotional view. I live for today without forsaking tomorrow and concern myself with things I can control. I just don't see reading all these financial doom and gloom blogs as being helpful.

E86S54
__________________
e86s54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 03:29 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
There are a fair number of members/visitors here who seem to have compiled a ER financial plan that depends on a lot of things going just right, and almost nothing going wrong.

That's not my impression. I recall a recent thread on withdrawal strategies that gave me the impression folks here were building a lot of safety into their retirement strategies. They may start with FIRECalc, but many didn't end there. They lowered the WR below what FIRECalc considered 100% safe, identified spending that could be cut, or income that could earned, and generally had a few levers to pull in the event things went off the rails.

Maybe not everyone takes this approach, but a lot of those who posted in that thread certainly did.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 03:45 PM   #66
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
What I've had difficulty in doing is separating the folks who warned about the Y2K crash, the tech bubble or the real estate disaster from the permabears who see financial Armageddon around every bend. An additional complication is so many of those who post here to tell us the sky is falling seem to have developed abrasive online personalities (one recent gold bug comes to mind) which may be a reaction to the reception they've received on this and other forums.

And rarely have we had contrarians offering thoughtful and well reasoned analysis. Instead it tends to be aspersions against the government, conspiracy theories regarding any and all official statistics, and gross generalizations about debt or manufacturing or whatever.

There are exceptions of course, but they have been few.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 03:46 PM   #67
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
That's not my impression. I recall a recent thread on withdrawal strategies that gave me the impression folks here were building a lot of safety into their retirement strategies. They may start with FIRECalc, but many didn't end there. They lowered the WR below what FIRECalc considered 100% safe, identified spending that could be cut, or income that could earned, and generally had a few levers to pull in the event things went off the rails.

Maybe not everyone takes this approach, but a lot of those who posted in that thread certainly did.
I resemble that remark.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 05:59 PM   #68
Recycles dryer sheets
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
I used to be an efficient/rational market guy. When I was, I had no interest in threads like this. Market movement only meant rebalancing or a buying opportunity. The irrational and manipulated markets I've witnessed have changed my beliefs. I feel I have to take more responsibility...individual stock, sector rotation, some timing. For those of you who have a path, why waste your time with bulls or bears or threads named "are we headed for a fall"?
__________________
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 06:33 PM   #69
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
That's not my impression. I recall a recent thread on withdrawal strategies that gave me the impression folks here were building a lot of safety into their retirement strategies. They may start with FIRECalc, but many didn't end there. They lowered the WR below what FIRECalc considered 100% safe, identified spending that could be cut, or income that could earned, and generally had a few levers to pull in the event things went off the rails.

Maybe not everyone takes this approach, but a lot of those who posted in that thread certainly did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
I resemble that remark.
Me, too. Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of others here who prefer a higher level of risk. I took more risks when I was in accumulation phase than I would take now.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 09:57 PM   #70
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
That's not my impression.
I misspoke, or mis-wrote, whatever the case. That reply went through a couple of revisions as I was running around helping get things together for a dinner party and every time I sat down to write I would change something. It got a little disjointed in the writing and revision processes.

I didn't mean to say that there were a significant number of members here who were like that, but we do get our share. Many of them don't stay long, but a few hung in there and their posts drew a lot of comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I used to be an efficient/rational market guy. When I was, I had no interest in threads like this. Market movement only meant rebalancing or a buying opportunity. The irrational and manipulated markets I've witnessed have changed my beliefs. I feel I have to take more responsibility...individual stock, sector rotation, some timing.
Okay, a discussion, that I like.

My first thought is that taking on those changes is going to require some effort. Not everybody wants to do that in ER - it can get to be too much like a job. My second thought is a question - how will those changes make a difference in what you feel is an unfair environment (manipulated markets)?
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 07:27 AM   #71
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I used to be an efficient/rational market guy. When I was, I had no interest in threads like this. Market movement only meant rebalancing or a buying opportunity. The irrational and manipulated markets I've witnessed have changed my beliefs. I feel I have to take more responsibility...individual stock, sector rotation, some timing. For those of you who have a path, why waste your time with bulls or bears or threads named "are we headed for a fall"?
I am curious: if you really believe that the markets are just a giant game of 3 card monte, why would you invest in them at all? Surely you do not think you can beat the manipulators at their own game? Or perhaps you do?
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 10:16 AM   #72
Recycles dryer sheets
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
My first thought is that taking on those changes is going to require some effort. Not everybody wants to do that in ER - it can get to be too much like a job. My second thought is a question - how will those changes make a difference in what you feel is an unfair environment (manipulated markets)?
Very true. It's not so much I want to take on any extra work, as I feel I have to. I feel irrational and manipulated markets change how I must invest. Example-1)Companies that previously looked like bad investments but are now too big to fail might be an investment opportunity. 2)I was thinking about moving monies out of stable investments that produced greater returns because they were with insurance companies, not insured banks. Perhaps the gov't will bail out failing insurance companies enticing me to leave my money there. 3) The manipulation in real estate, hype by sellers, paper fraud, artificially low interest rates, buy downs, shadow inventory, Freddie and Fannie, gov't incentive programs.....makes for a very tricky market. The property I sold is now literally selling for half. Should I have bought and held? Just rebalanced my portfolio? I think not.
In addition I must admit I do like active investing. Trading stocks, looking for the best banks, brokerages, creditcards, and the like. Some people like gardening...some like investing...I now have time for both.
__________________
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 10:24 AM   #73
Recycles dryer sheets
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
I am curious: if you really believe that the markets are just a giant game of 3 card monte, why would you invest in them at all? Surely you do not think you can beat the manipulators at their own game? Or perhaps you do?
No matter what I wish, or what I think, this is the only game in town. As we have seen, the manipulators (ie, Geithner, Paulson, Summers and their friends) take the lions share. I am happy being the vulture easily living on the scraps they leave behind.
__________________
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 10:41 AM   #74
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Not all pessimistic posters here advocate owning gold and lead and K-rations, I don't think.
No, some of them think that gold would be too difficult to trade for anything in a survival scenario.

Quote:
PS. Eh, about Newfoundland, I've got to get my RV out of the state of AZ first!
The Newfies I've known are nice folks. You did know that Newfoundland is an island, didn't you? There are ferries. Go during the summer when it is more accessible.

Quote:
In fact, all this big talk about Alaska and PEI is so that I will have to keep my words and to actually do it. Will have photos to post as proofs that we make it there (will buy t-shirts too, of course) .
How will we know you really got there and didn't just download photos off the internet? You would have to include yourself in a photo but then we would never recognize you anyway.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 11:52 AM   #75
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Not all pessimistic posters here advocate owning gold and lead and K-rations, I don't think.
A few acres of fertile farm land and the knowledge to work that land will go a long way to sustain my family no matter what the economy looks like. And if the gold bugs want to eat, they'll have to give me their gold first...
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 11:57 AM   #76
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
And if the gold bugs want to eat, they'll have to give me their gold first...
If it comes to that I have a feeling it won't be yellow metal you'll be given, but something more along the lines of gray lead...
__________________
LARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 12:02 PM   #77
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
If it comes to that I have a feeling it won't be yellow metal you'll be given, but something more along the lines of gray lead...
Are you saying that gold bugs are thugs? Besides, why would you think I would hesitate to use lethal force on an armed trespasser? Bullets can fly both ways, you know...
__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 12:19 PM   #78
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREdreamer View Post
Are you saying that gold bugs are thugs? Besides, why would you think I would hesitate to use lethal force on an armed trespasser? Bullets can fly both ways, you know...
Gold bugs are not thugs... starving people are, and in the event gold becomes real world "currency" there will be a lot more people with lead than gold looking to eat.

I guess my real point is that IF it gets to that point (and I don't think it will at all, not even close) where society has broken down, unless you have a private army, you are kidding yourself if you think you can survive on your own on a few acres. You will be overrun...
__________________
LARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 12:29 PM   #79
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
Quote:
To me, the biggest threat that I can see that I am not investing for is a major terrorist attack... with a full nuke in the middle of NY or Washington... that would really cause a lot of problems for our country... and I suspect the market would crash big time... who knows how long it would take to get things fixed...
Most of my cash is held in various "internet" banks like Ally, Apple FCU, Pentagon FCU, etc. I wonder what the access to these accounts would be in such an event?

Since cash earns so little, does anyone keep a stash of actual "cash" around? I've never been a *&% hits the fan kind of guy, but that might not be a bad idea, although I would not know where to put it since I have no safe at my house. Put it in a safe deposit box maybe?
__________________
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 12:51 PM   #80
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
Gold bugs are not thugs... starving people are, and in the event gold becomes real world "currency" there will be a lot more people with lead than gold looking to eat.

I guess my real point is that IF it gets to that point (and I don't think it will at all, not even close) where society has broken down, unless you have a private army, you are kidding yourself if you think you can survive on your own on a few acres. You will be overrun...
If you read my post, I was talking specifically about gold bugs. If people have gold stashed somewhere and they still prefer to steal my stuff rather than pay for it, then they are thugs.
Quote:
if the gold bugs want to eat, they'll have to give me their gold first
I actually have a better business plan. Subdivide the farm into small lots, rent each lot to some hungry city dwellers for one year - for a few gold coins payable up front of course. Let them grow their own food and fight with whomever tries to trespass on their (rented) land... Less work, more profits.

The argument that people will kill you for what you have can certainly be made. It can be made for land owners for sure but I can be made for gold bugs just as easily. If society really breaks down, the guy with the biggest guns and the most dubious character will always win. Having a few gold coins in your pocket won't help you. It will just make you a target.

What I am talking about is surviving in economic conditions spanning from the Weimar Republic to the Great Depression. As I said before, I don't think the end of the world is coming any time soon.
__________________

__________________
FIREd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seek Advice re "2nd Home" to "Rental House" Transition Bonden FIRE and Money 3 05-18-2010 10:32 AM
tiny button fix: "Save" edited comment sometimes = "Vote Now" ladelfina Forum Admin 0 09-24-2008 02:22 AM
"Gut feel" versus "evidence-based" medicine Buckeye Health and Early Retirement 10 11-08-2007 11:21 AM
Book reports: "Blink" & "Tipping Point" Nords Other topics 2 12-04-2005 05:15 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.