Assault On Reason

[cute fuzzy bunny]

He wanted to be baseball commissioner.

Maybe he thinks he is.

That would explain a lot of things.

For starters, maybe he's just quoting Yogi Berra a lot.

 

[martyb]

FD - Theory...What Theory? ....this is a little discourse between marty, erd and I ....you don't have to read the thread you know...we ain't hurtin' nobody...least I'm not hurt, not sure about marty though

Nope, I'm not hurtin', just couldn't really join in the fun since SOME of us are still w**king for a living & can't play on the forum while on the clock. Seems like I recall how the Democrats tried really hard to keep a bunch of absentee votes from military members who were stationed overseas from being counted in that infamous election as well. Could that be because it's widely known that military folks are predominately more conservative type voters? Hmmmmmmmmm? I've heard plenty of the wild-ass stories about minorities being prevented from voting but have never seen any credible proof. The issue with the military overseas absentee situation was a fact, and was reported by the news while all the election BS was going on. Why do you think the Dems would try so hard to prevent military personnel who were actively defending their country from casting their legal votes?

 

[ladelfina]

Oh please.. THIS is what the current crop of Republicans thinks of the military:

I remember Nixon, Ford, and Reagan.. disagreed with much of what they did.. agreed with some of it, more again was outright criminal. I didn't like Kerry much at all.. but what clinched my Kerry vote was what you see in the picture above. That's when the Republicans jumped the shark.

Sustaining candidates, one who went AWOL even from his marginal, tangential 'service' and another who got IIRC nine deferments.. what is there left to do but make a mockery of someone who actually served in combat rather than skipping out??

Wrapped in the flag, they made fun of a wounded combat vet.

They made fun of a wounded combat vet.
They made light of his injuries and of the horrors of war.
They sneered at his service.

This is the Assault on Reason.
This is when I understood there was no depth, no sewer, they would not descend to.


[Someone I'm sure will say "well, what about the dirty hippies who spit on vets?" Assuming that this urban myth is even true.. at least it might be construed as consistent with an anti-war mindset.]

Pro-war NON-veterans mocking veterans.. that's your Assault on Reason.

 

[Danny]

marty - sorry you work and can't always come out and play at the forum.
I remember the military vote thing. There was a lot of tit-for-tat between the two camps when they were maneuvering against each other, I remember Bush sued to prevent a recount...

...as far as "I've heard plenty of the wild-ass stories about minorities being prevented from voting but have never seen any credible proof. The issue with the military overseas absentee situation was a fact" - Katherine Harris hired ChoicePoint prior to the election to identify and remove thousands of names from the state voters list on the condition that these people were convicted felons. Many of these would-be voters were turned away at the polls or even prior to reaching the polling places. It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play" - this is documented marty, so I think it could be considered a fact also.

But in any case, in the words of Tony Snow when faced with anything critical of the White House's performance, "that's old news, we want to keep looking forward..."

My point is we would have been much better off with Gore or anyone else...I think Bush must be the worst president and Iraq America's worst blunder...

Hope you'll soon not be working and can [-]waste[/-] spend more time on the forum

 

[Gillette]

- Katherine Harris hired ChoicePoint prior to the election to identify and remove thousands of names from the state voters list on the condition that these people were convicted felons. Many of these would-be voters were turned away at the polls or even prior to reaching the polling places. It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play" - this is documented marty, so I think it could be considered a fact also.

Personally I don't care if you want to beat dead horses until the cows come home, but I do take exception to not quoting sources. This is the second time you've cut & pasted this exact verbage on this thread. No source = plagiarisim.

 

[Danny]

Personally I don't care if you want to beat dead horses until the cows come home, but I do take exception to not quoting sources. This is the second time you've cut & pasted this exact verbage on this thread. No source = plagiarisim.

Ok, neeps, please just put the bat down and sit down.... now that I think about it, it was careless of me not to footnote the quote that I cut and pasted, no excuses, it was an innocent mistake I never thought of it as my words just in a hurry to justify my position, but I can see now that it would appear like I was using my own words...thanks for pointing it out, .
here some links the first had the "quote", the second is background, and also by clicking on the highlighted Choicepoint links in my previous posts will be lead to their involvement. Can we let the cows come home now and let me get out and golf...

Katherine Harris

Florida Central File

 

[FinanceDude]

Personally I don't care if you want to beat dead horses until the cows come home, but I do take exception to not quoting sources. This is the second time you've cut & pasted this exact verbage on this thread. No source = plagiarisim.

 

[Danny]

Yeah, like you're an FD!

 

[kcowan]

Republicans guilty of fraud in Florida

Ok, neeps, please just put the bat down and sit down.... now that I think about it, it was careless of me not to footnote the quote that I cut and pasted, noexcuses, thanks for pointing it out, I'll try to do better in the future...
here some links the first had the "quote", the second is background, and also by clicking on the highlighted Choicepoint links in my previous posts will be lead to their involvement. Can we let the cows come home now and let me get out and golf...

Katherine Harris

Florida Central File

Here is a choice quote from The Guardian:

One elections supervisor, Linda Howell of Madison County, was so upset by the errors that she refused to use the Harris/ChoicePoint list. How could she be so sure the new list identified innocent people as felons? Because her own name was on it, 'and I assure you, I am not a felon'.

But was her guilt choosing ChoicePoint and then not supervising the following actions or was it by design? Did she know that the list actually came from Texas?
A blacklist burning for Bush | Business | The Observer

'It's just fundamental industry practice that you don't roll out the list statewide until you have tested it and tested it again,' he said. 'Dershowitz is right: they had to know that this jeopardised thousands of people's registrations. And they would also know the [racial] profile of those voters.'

 

[ladelfina]

More of the Assault on Reason:

Think Progress » ‘The most trusted name in news.’
v. short video re. CNN

When the "talent" is mutinying.. maybe there's hope.
(until they figure out that's part of the 'infotainment', too)

Earlier mutiny: Look at how they sneer at and scorn the MSNBC news anchor-gal..
YouTube - MSNBC Anchor Rips Up Paris Hilton News Story

I found it surprisingly uncomfortable to watch.. you get the sense that everyone is *really* on edge about deviating from what the powers-that-be have decreed. And that the sneering is almost forced.. One of the few times I've thought a studio anchor actually earned the hundred$/minute they were getting for their little blurb.

 

[ERD50]

here some links the first had the "quote" that I stoled and didn't credit,

Katherine Harris

So, now that we have the source, we can evaluate those quotes a bit:

...It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play"

Hmmm, 'suggested foul play' - that caught my eye. Was there actually foul play? What was done about it then? Who 'suggested' it. Ahh, here's your answer - the reference from that source goes back to ....

American Blackout (2006) is a documentary film directed by Ian Inaba. It premiered at the 2006 Sundance Film Festival.

So the Sundance Film Festival and a music video director are now our standards for sources of factual information??

weak, weak, weak.... And this is what I mean by the weak Dems. If this stuff is so 'known', why don't they DO something about it, rather than rely on some guy at a Film Festival to address it?

I would not be totally surprised if the Dems hand the election to the Repubs again.

This reminds me of a 'discussion' I had on another forum with a guy complaining about all the errors in the voting machines. He went on and on about how these errors cost the Dems votes, here, here, and there. How can the errors *always* be stacked against the Dems? It's either wacko conspiracy theories, or the Dems are just too weak to protect public polling places - and what does that say about them?

-ERD50

 

[Bigritchie]

I think whether you vote heads or tails, you are still voting for the same coin at this point.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Aint that the truth. Political parties used to be pretty dang different from each other 50-100+ years ago.

Now they're pretty much the same guy, couple of different POV's on a few hot button issues designed to mobilize groups of voters.

Truth is, if you crossed out the names and dates and just listed the political goings on, you wouldnt be able to tell who was doing what when.

 

[Danny]

erd50 - you're right I guess we can find facts to support our positions if we look hard enough...and they can be interpreted differently depending on the prism we look through.... there is this report from the US Commission on Civil Rights report on the Florida Voting Irregularities that I think supports the point I was attempting to make, but I maybe only looking at what justifies my position....

 

[ERD50]

. there is this report from the US Commission on Civil Rights report on the Florida Voting Irregularities that I think supports the point I was attempting to make, but I maybe only looking at what justifies my position....

Thanks Dan, a much better source. I will read it in detail a bit later, but one thing did jump out at me that goes to the heart of my feeling that the Dems need to step up to the plate and be proactive and take some responsibility, rather than complaining after the fact. That is the comments on the infamous Butterfly Ballot, and other ballot design issues.

As I recall, BOTH parties must approve the ballots before they are accepted. So the 'whining' that we heard about these Butterfly ballots disenfranchising many Democratic voters - who is to blame for that? Why were the Dems not watching out for themselves? This is what concerns me. They could not even take the time and trouble to identify and head off this problem when they had every chance, and we are supposed to believe that they can deal with matters that are much, much harder to control? That is a tough one to swallow.

-ERD50

 

[dumpster56]

Thanks Dan, a much better source. I will read it in detail a bit later, but one thing did jump out at me that goes to the heart of my feeling that the Dems need to step up to the plate and be proactive and take some responsibility, rather than complaining after the fact. That is the comments on the infamous Butterfly Ballot, and other ballot design issues.

As I recall, BOTH parties must approve the ballots before they are accepted. So the 'whining' that we heard about these Butterfly ballots disenfranchising many Democratic voters - who is to blame for that? Why were the Dems not watching out for themselves? This is what concerns me. They could not even take the time and trouble to identify and head off this problem when they had every chance, and we are supposed to believe that they can deal with matters that are much, much harder to control? That is a tough one to swallow.

-ERD50

Just shows how stupid we really are as a country. we cannot even figure out the best way to vote.

How bout something as simple as this

President check one.....

Bush______

Gore______

Geesh.

 

[ERD50]

Just shows how stupid we really are as a country. we cannot even figure out the best way to vote.

How bout something as simple as this

President check one.....

Bush______

Gore______

Geesh.

I'll vote for 'Geesh', thank you .

But you make an excellent point. Billions of stock market transactions a day, and how many credit card and ATM transactions each day, and the error rate must be extremely low.

It shouldn't be that hard to make a low error rate voting system. I know there is a group working on this, but it is a shame it was not dealt with up front. How long have ATMs been commonplace?

-ERD50

 

[bright eyed]

cuz the govmt is not a business and as long as the poking pin in the hole machines were working, they kept them. Even if technology made the larger margin of error unnecessary - in the glaring light of the florida debacle it was to the horror and realization of the country that elections were deeply marred by carelessness and out-dated technology.

then came the tech whiz's w/ those touch machines - which the govmts were then too quick to adopt without realizing/noticing/caring about the security/tampering/conflict of interest issues. sad sad.

a lot of govmts don't budget for continual upgrading, and who wants to be the schmuck advocating a tax increase or some other (take from another pot/program/service) to pay for new technology? they get the chance to do it after florida, rush and pour money down an expensive, tainted hole and again, politicians - and worse, democracy/voting - lose credibility.

it's extremely frustrating to watch all this going on!!!