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Assault On Reason
Old 07-25-2007, 11:58 AM   #1
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Assault On Reason

Been listening to Al Gore's new book Assault On Reason. Does a good job on describing the changes that have occurred to America's public discourse and politics. How the powerful control the means of communication and the politicians and the techniques Bush, et al, use to manipulate us and the political process. The Internet could offer hope for more 2-way participatory politics - like what happened the other night with YouTube and the demo debate.

I wonder if it's possible to bypass the corporate profit driven news gatekeepers, or will new ones just replace them.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:58 PM   #2
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.. I hope the former. You can definitely see that the MSM is running scared. They hated the idea of the YouTube debates. The op-ed scribblers don't like the idea of being upstaged by "a guy in his pajamas". [Do we know for a fact they themselves put on a Very Serious tailored suit before casting their pearls before the swine?]

They have become a very elite crowd and it gets ever more depressing to see the Judy Millers partying with the Libbys and the David Gregorys boogying with Karl Rove and the slick transition of Tony Snow from FOX anchor to presidential spokesman (or was it the other way 'round?).

Quote:
After tonight’s YouTube debate, CNN ran a segment critiquing the candidates on their body language and dress. Wolf Blitzer introduced it, stating, “Candidates also sighed, they rolled their eyes, they looked at their watches during the debate.” CNN’s Carol Costello commented, “Look at how the candidates were dressed. The men wore dark suits, but Hillary Clinton wore a brightly-colored jacket.”
Think Progress » CNN’s post-debate analysis tackles the tough questions.

The standard TV fare seems ever more content-free and the anchors insert themselves WAY too much, like it's all about them.. even to the point of openly sniggering. I really don't get it.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:59 PM   #3
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Yes, the sky is falling lol. Al Gore is an idiot.
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:00 PM   #4
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OK, maybe not an idiot, more like a buffoon.
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
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I think the "Crawford Chimp" has been at the front of the buffoonery line for many years.
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:27 PM   #6
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.. I hope the former. You can definitely see that the MSM is running scared. They hated the idea of the YouTube debates. The op-ed scribblers don't like the idea of being upstaged by "a guy in his pajamas". [Do we know for a fact they themselves put on a Very Serious tailored suit before casting their pearls before the swine?]

They have become a very elite crowd and it gets ever more depressing to see the Judy Millers partying with the Libbys and the David Gregorys boogying with Karl Rove and the slick transition of Tony Snow from FOX anchor to presidential spokesman (or was it the other way 'round?).


Think Progress » CNN’s post-debate analysis tackles the tough questions.

The standard TV fare seems ever more content-free and the anchors insert themselves WAY too much, like it's all about them.. even to the point of openly sniggering. I really don't get it.
Agree! I would love to be getting my information from the internet and not have to be fed stuff about the latest cable/network celebrity/crime obsession, or them spending hours on haircuts and clothing choices, instead of keeping us informed which we can be if the internet remains free open and diverse.

Marty, you're funny! But if by chance, you are serious, you should turn off the right wing propaganda machine, read the book and keep an open mind.
Man I wish Al had been elected in 2000. We would be so much better off.
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:52 PM   #7
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Marty, you're funny! But if by chance, you are serious, you should turn off the right wing propaganda machine, read the book and keep an open mind.
Man I wish Al had been elected in 2000. We would be so much better off.
My sentiments exactly. The right wing has a won the propaganda war a long time ago. As a group of people, we Americans are the most insular, myopic and arrogant people on the face of the earth, shaped in part by the constant propaganda we've been fed about being the best place on earth. Meanwhile, by every social measure, we are ranked among the lowest of any developed country. As for Al Gore not getting elected, that's what happens when the masses no longer have a voice and special interest and those with the means to influence policies win. The propaganda has been so successful that the average American no longer knows how to vote in the best interest.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Zipper View Post
I think the "Crawford Chimp" has been at the front of the buffoonery line for many years.
Is that a typo? Shouldn't it be "Crawford Chump?!
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DanTien View Post
Man I wish Al had been elected in 2000. We would be so much better off.

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My sentiments exactly. The right wing has a won the propaganda war a long time ago. ....

The propaganda has been so successful that the average American no longer knows how to vote in the best interest.
Hmmm, so we would be better off letting the guy that didn't win the election get into office? I'm sure that system would work well!

How would you respond to someone expressing that sentiment when your guy won?

Well, I guess it all depends if it's your propaganda or not.

Why is that some Democrats are so against... Democracy?

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Old 07-25-2007, 08:06 PM   #10
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Yes, the sky is falling lol. Al Gore is an idiot.
That is an insult to idiots.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:31 PM   #11
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Hmmm, so we would be better off letting the guy that didn't win the election get into office? I'm sure that system would work well!

How would you respond to someone expressing that sentiment when your guy won?

Well, I guess it all depends if it's your propaganda or not.

Why is that some Democrats are so against... Democracy?

-ERD50
Hey ERD, Al was elected, I should have said I wished he was sworn in as President.

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That is an insult to idiots.
This is an example of what Al talks about - the lowering of the public discourse...
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:33 PM   #12
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Hey ERD, Al was elected, I should have said I wished he was sworn in as President.


This is an example of what Al talks about - the lowering of the public discourse...

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Old 07-25-2007, 09:36 PM   #13
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Hey ERD, Al was elected, I should have said I wished he was sworn in as President.

This is an example of what Al talks about - the lowering of the public discourse...
Now, if you'd like to talk about 'lowering of the public discourse', how about anyone who thinks that we elect our presidents by the popular vote?

I assure you that Gore is/was not idiotic enough to try to win the popular vote over the electoral college vote. He knew what it would take, went after the electoral vote, and...failed. Despite the fact that the Republicans just about offered the election to the Dems on a silver platter.

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Old 07-26-2007, 12:36 AM   #14
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Now, if you'd like to talk about 'lowering of the public discourse', how about anyone who thinks that we elect our presidents by the popular vote?

I assure you that Gore is/was not idiotic enough to try to win the popular vote over the electoral college vote. He knew what it would take, went after the electoral vote, and...failed. Despite the fact that the Republicans just about offered the election to the Dems on a silver platter.

-ERD50
Oh, ERD that hardly qualifies for lowering the discourse, how about the propagandists' Russ/Sean/Ann/Bill posing as journalists. That's what I mean and the Bush henchmen going around with their talking points demonizing their opponents and repeating the same lies over and over again just like Joe Goebbels who I quote -“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

. I think finally the chickens are coming home to roost.... I know Gore lost based on the electoral vote - Bush won Florida by 537 votes and thus got the electoral votes to push him over - remember the month long controversy...the African-Americans that were prevented from voting, the chads, the screwed-up ballots, the secretary of state Katherine Harris (There were allegations of conflicts of interest and partisan, unethical behavior by Katherine Harris during the 2000 campaign. Harris had been named as Bush's Florida campaign co-chair the year before. In addition, by Harris' decree, ChoicePoint — a private firm — was hired prior to the election to identify and remove thousands of names from the state voters list on the condition that these people were convicted felons. Many of these would-be voters were turned away at the polls or even prior to reaching the polling places. It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play... In any case, the thousands of votes affected by Choicepoint's error were far in excess of the number of votes (537) by which George W. Bush won the state....Harris certified that the Republican candidate, then-Texas Governor George W. Bush, had defeated the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore, in the popular vote of Florida and thus certified the Republican slate of electors. Her ruling was challenged and overturned on appeal by Florida's Supreme Court; this decision, however, was itself reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore. That Court ruled (5-4) that Gore's request to extend Florida's statutory deadline for ballot re-counts had no merit, because no Florida law at the time provided for that option. This ruling nullified the state court's decision, upholding Harris' certification. The decision foreclosed any further court challenges by Gore and resulted in Bush's margin of victory in Florida being officially tallied at 537 votes. Therefore, Florida's electoral votes — and the Presidency — went to George W. Bush....the supreme court preventing a recount...I don't know what you mean by silver platter...I voted for Bush in 2000 and I'm sorry I did..I was lulled into thing it would be a competent administration with Colin Powell & Candi Rice involved..... I'm not a Democrat but an Independent...but since this numbskull the only Republican I would vote for now is Chuck Hagel and he ain't running, so It will probably be a Democrat in 2008 for me. In hindsight, I wish Ralph Nader had stayed out of it and that Gore had won. I think we have a dangerous team in Bush & Cheney...dangerous for America...I hope we can carry on a higher discourse together...I'm not so sure marty is capable of it though ....how about it marty?
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:35 AM   #15
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Oh, ERD that hardly qualifies for lowering the discourse, how about the propagandists' Russ/Sean/Ann/Bill posing as journalists. That's what I mean and the Bush henchmen going around with their talking points demonizing their opponents and repeating the same lies over and over again just like Joe Goebbels who I quote -“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

. I think finally the chickens are coming home to roost.... I know Gore lost based on the electoral vote - Bush won Florida by 537 votes and thus got the electoral votes to push him over - remember the month long controversy...the African-Americans that were prevented from voting, the chads, the screwed-up ballots, the secretary of state Katherine Harris (There were allegations of conflicts of interest and partisan, unethical behavior by Katherine Harris during the 2000 campaign. Harris had been named as Bush's Florida campaign co-chair the year before. In addition, by Harris' decree, ChoicePoint — a private firm — was hired prior to the election to identify and remove thousands of names from the state voters list on the condition that these people were convicted felons. Many of these would-be voters were turned away at the polls or even prior to reaching the polling places. It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play... In any case, the thousands of votes affected by Choicepoint's error were far in excess of the number of votes (537) by which George W. Bush won the state....Harris certified that the Republican candidate, then-Texas Governor George W. Bush, had defeated the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore, in the popular vote of Florida and thus certified the Republican slate of electors. Her ruling was challenged and overturned on appeal by Florida's Supreme Court; this decision, however, was itself reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore. That Court ruled (5-4) that Gore's request to extend Florida's statutory deadline for ballot re-counts had no merit, because no Florida law at the time provided for that option. This ruling nullified the state court's decision, upholding Harris' certification. The decision foreclosed any further court challenges by Gore and resulted in Bush's margin of victory in Florida being officially tallied at 537 votes. Therefore, Florida's electoral votes — and the Presidency — went to George W. Bush....the supreme court preventing a recount...I don't know what you mean by silver platter...I voted for Bush in 2000 and I'm sorry I did..I was lulled into thing it would be a competent administration with Colin Powell & Candi Rice involved..... I'm not a Democrat but an Independent...but since this numbskull the only Republican I would vote for now is Chuck Hagel and he ain't running, so It will probably be a Democrat in 2008 for me. In hindsight, I wish Ralph Nader had stayed out of it and that Gore had won. I think we have a dangerous team in Bush & Cheney...dangerous for America...I hope we can carry on a higher discourse together...I'm not so sure marty is capable of it though ....how about it marty?
THAT ELECTION was almost SEVEN years ago.............can we drop the conspiracy theories??
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:52 AM   #16
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FD - Theory...What Theory? ....this is a little discourse between marty, erd and I ....you don't have to read the thread you know...we ain't hurtin' nobody...least I'm not hurt, not sure about marty though
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:27 AM   #17
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Too bad Gore lost so much credibility with his Chicken Little performance in An Inconvenient Truth. This book seems to be shades of Orwell's 1984. Hopefully he can make an impact but it is doubtful based on his logic.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:35 AM   #18
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History is written by the victors (no matter how it was that they came to win). So facts can be dismissed as theories.

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the Florida governor's office in Tallahassee made 95 telephone calls to the George W. Bush presidential campaign, its advisors, lawyers and staffers during the 36-day recount period, records show. At least 10 calls came from an office number used primarily by Jeb Bush, including one call to a private line in George W. Bush's gubernatorial office in Austin. Another call from Jeb Bush's number went to Karl Rove, his brother's campaign strategist. One went to the Texas governor's chief of staff, Clay Johnson. Another went to Michigan Gov. John Engler, who soon flew to Florida to monitor the ballot recount in Broward County. Additional calls were logged to cell phones assigned to Bush campaign staffers.

In an e-mail this week to The Times, Jeb Bush said he could not recall the purpose of the calls. "I have no clue what these calls were about," he wrote.

"They most likely were return phone calls," Bush added. "In the alternative, they could have been my assistant passing on a request for an invitation to speak or an autographed picture. They might have been answering a request on where to eat in Tallahassee for the hoards [sic] of Austin folks that made their way here. They could have been for many reasons. I don't remember."
Jeb Bush's Recount Role Examined

Hee hee hee. Yep. I believe him, don't you?
Jeb was calling Karl Rove jes' t'say that a new 8x10, inscribed "to Karl, love Jeb" was in the mail.

Watch Gonzales' performance recently: acting like they fell off the turnip truck is Standard Operating Procedure for these guys.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:01 AM   #19
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Too bad Gore lost so much credibility with his Chicken Little performance in An Inconvenient Truth. This book seems to be shades of Orwell's 1984. Hopefully he can make an impact but it is doubtful based on his logic.
Al should hire a personal trainer and quit looking like a guy ready to keel over.........
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:57 AM   #20
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Oh, ERD that hardly qualifies for lowering the discourse, how about the propagandists' Russ/Sean/Ann/Bill posing as journalists.
and all the rest (omitted for brevity)...

First, I hate right wing extremists as much as I hate Left wing extremists - both just stand in the way of real progress.

Election and 'silver platter': I meant that the Repubs did such a bad job that the Dems *should* have been able to come in and win by a landslide. They did not. Weak showing.

Vote counts: Let's get past the conspiracy theories and talk brass tacks here. Now, I would *never* condone cheating in an election. However, this is the real world. Stuff happens. Anyone in politics knows it, and they need to work to protect themselves against it. It's ugly, but it's the truth. If the Democrats were not able to fight these vote count issues and win, how can we expect them to fight far more sinister threats from outside our country? I am not saying the ends justify the means at all, but I think the theories (if you believe them) simply go to show how weak and ineffective the Dems really are.

Please note that nothing in my above statements defend Bush or anyone else. Simply pointing out how weak the Dems are. What I really long for is a strong third party - there is so much opportunity there.

If you are going to say that the Dems are just morally superior to the Repubs and would not resort to the same 'tricks', fine. But IMO you are being naive.

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