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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-08-2007, 06:38 PM   #21
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

This interests me. I wonder why most people are focusing their bafflement over her behavior on the fact of her profession, as if being an astronaut and being able to compartmentalize well excludes a person from going over the waterfall.

Obviously, she was in love. Her lover "betrayed" her with another woman. She was separated from her husband. She had three children. And she was/is an astronaut. My goodness! If this isn't a recipe for severe mental/emotional anguish I don't know what would be. Many people going through separation/divorce experience sleep deprivation. Several months of this can really cause a serious personality disorder. Many people need anti-depressants and other meds to get through the emotional trauma of love gone bad.

I don't think people in our society realize the severe emotional trauam of losing one's love partner. Either it's treated as something ordinary, happens all the time, you know. Or it's a joke. Like "no fury like a woman scorned." This is real human suffering. And may really be "Temporary insanity."

All this doesn't excuse trying to murder your rival though.
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-08-2007, 06:44 PM   #22
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

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Originally Posted by Oldbabe
All this doesn't excuse trying to murder your rival though.
To me that is really over the top (to say the least).
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-08-2007, 07:06 PM   #23
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

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Originally Posted by samclem
Hmmm. I'm not an expert on Navy disciplinary procedures, but I'll bet a nickel she doesn't end up keeping her pension. Anything is possible, and if she gets a good defense lawyer, he'll definitely attempt to build a strong temporary insanity defense (it's prima facie: Can anything else explain flushing everything a lifetime of accomplishments down the toilet for such an ill-conceived plot?). I would guess she'll first face the charges in civilian court (battery, attempted kidnapping), and then the military system will have their shot at her.
The Navy never even court-martialed Scott Waddle for killing nine Japanese fishermen (including high school students) with USS GREENEVILLE. He's collecting his pension, and the U.S. has even attempted to financially compensate the Japanese families for their losses.

I bet she's retired before she even gets back in court. At least she'll have good mental-healthcare benefits...
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 10:09 AM   #24
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

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Originally Posted by Want2retire
To me that is really over the top (to say the least).
What? Did you read the word "doesn't"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
The Navy never even court-martialed Scott Waddle for killing nine Japanese fishermen (including high school students) with USS GREENEVILLE. He's collecting his pension, and the U.S. has even attempted to financially compensate the Japanese families for their losses.

I bet she's retired before she even gets back in court. At least she'll have good mental-healthcare benefits...
If I remember correctly the Greeneville case didn't involve a deliberate act. Is that true? Doesn't that make a difference in military justice? The astronaut's actions were deliberate but involved a personal matter. And she is not in the military (correct?), so why would the government have any right to take her pension?
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 10:38 AM   #25
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

During my short stint and the Johnson Space Center, I got to see a fair number of astronauts. Most were pretty cheerful and seemed like normal people. Some were pretty full of themselves. One ex-astronaut that was with a contractor sold autographed pictures of himself for $10. I don't know anyone that would admit to have bought one. He would give them out as "awards" to people that did "exceptional" service to his contract. :

Active astronauts were definitely pampered and were definitely the favored caste at JSC. Their actual job seemed really boring except for the couple times they got to go into space.

When involved in flight preparation, they would go over and over every detail of the flight with every what-if anyone could think of. There would be multiple crews for every flight so they would train for years knowing they weren't going to go. If they weren't preparing for a flight they were pretty much used like lab rats. Much of their day was spent waiting and watching.

Sometimes something would happen where I would really worry about how smart they were. We had two that became "overcome with fumes" when testing a possible adhesive for repairing shuttle tiles. I got involved in the investigation since it involved a chemical. Some of the components were highly toxic. Even low concentrations smelled terrible. They were lucky the area was well ventilated. The whole "new chemical procedure" had been totally ignored so it was really the civil servant program director that was responsible. The astronauts should have been more interested what they were using. I don't know how they could stand the smell before they got dizzy.

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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 10:44 AM   #26
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

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Originally Posted by Oldbabe
What? Did you read the word "doesn't"?
Obviously I didn't communicate very well. My comment was meant to agree with yours. Murdering her rival was an action that was really over the top, in my opinion. Sorry!
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 10:51 AM   #27
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
Obviously I didn't communicate very well. My comment was meant to agree with yours. Murdering her rival was an action that was really over the top, in my opinion. Sorry!
Ok, now I get ya!
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 11:24 AM   #28
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #29
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
If I remember correctly the Greeneville case didn't involve a deliberate act. Is that true? Doesn't that make a difference in military justice? The astronaut's actions were deliberate but involved a personal matter. And she is not in the military (correct?), so why would the government have any right to take her pension?
True, only gross negligence. While it does make a difference in military justice, I'm not trying to compare the charges. I'm just saying that people died and and a formal court of inquiry was held yet it still wasn't considered "bad" enough to put a guy through a court martial. So I doubt that they'll do anything to CAPT Nowak because nobody died, despite the evidence that she may have been contemplating murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
If The astronaut's actions were deliberate but involved a personal matter. And she is not in the military (correct?), so why would the government have any right to take her pension?
She's still on active duty, just stationed at NASA instead of commanding an air wing or flying a Pentagon desk. She still "competed" for promotion against all the other naval officers in her year group, although admittedly the astronaut part of the fitness report tends to give one a boost in the competition. Much as her pending punitive letter of reprimand would knock her out of the competition if she was foolish enough to hang around.

It was a personal matter, true, but it was against a junior officer who was hypothetically under her in the chain of command. So although it's technically a military matter, it's also a huge tabloid hairball that would have Jerry Springer & Geraldo Rivera drooling on the floor, to say nothing of Montel Williams (USNA '80). No one in Navy Public Affairs wants to see pit-bull lawyers like Charles Gittins (USNA '79) or Eric Seitz defending her in a court martial or trying her case in the press. MegaNavy just wants her to go away fast.

As an O-6 with nearly 22 years of service she's eligible for a pension of roughly $51K/year (the calculations look at the top 36 months of pay, and I'm estimating that value instead of calculating it) plus a COLA and $40/month TRICARE health insurance. Mental health treatment is covered, too, with just a $12 copay per appointment!
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 12:57 PM   #30
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

The NASA spin machine is gearing up to help her and minimize the perceived scandal. There have been several sympathetic stories in the past day in the Houston press (don't know if they went national). She was a "compassion officer" for the family of one of the astronauts killed when the shuttle broke up. The husband of one of the dead astronauts was interviewed (he works for NASA). She stayed with the family for days following the event. She, of course, managed to prevent any potentially nasty press statements an upset family may have made in that period. He said the Orlando police are fabricating the attempted murder charge plus she couldn't have wanted to hurt anyone.



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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 01:04 PM   #31
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

Everybody knows:

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

But I've never considered the military implications before. Seems like there are two lessons here:

1) Most of our active soldiers should be scorned women. We'd be kicking ass.

2) Once they're back home, don't scorn a woman with military training.
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 01:12 PM   #32
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
2) Once they're back home, don't scorn a woman with military training.
After two decades of marriage I've concluded that's wise advice. But hard to miss...
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 03:17 PM   #33
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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Quote:
Once they're back home, don't scorn a woman with military training.
After two decades of marriage I've concluded that's wise advice. But hard to miss...
I recall hearing some wise-ass say something like this when the whole idea
of women in the military was being debated - something like "anyone who
thinks women can't fight as well as men, must have never been married".

And everybody remembers this one:

Dick Armey when asked "If you had been in President Clinton's place would
you have resigned?"

Armey's reply:
"If I had been in the president's place I would not have gotten the chance
to resign. I would have been lying in a pool of my own blood, looking up,
and listening to my wife ask, 'How do you reload this son of a bitch'?"


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Re: Astronaut Arrest Info
Old 02-09-2007, 03:29 PM   #34
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