Audiophile Cable

[ls99]

A few times questions come up about audio etc cable quality. Some pay insane amounts of $$$$ for speaker cables or for that metter ethenet cables.

AssTechnica dissected a $340.- ethernet audiphile cable for edification.
While nicely made, none of it has anything to do with good quality audio, or for that matter ethernet speeds.

I am a fan of hevy gauge zip cord for speaker wires and whatever I find cheap as ethernet.

There is even a link to what a search for audio porn reveals.

You can click through the pics for the gory details. BTW the comments are priceless.
Gallery: We tear apart a $340 audiophile Ethernet cable and look inside | Ars Technica

 

[marko]

My ears are not as good as they used to be. Age and tinnitus.

For me, as long as it makes enough sound that it reminds me of what the song sounded like it's good enough. I kind of play the song in my head while the external output sort of prompts me along. Hard with new music though...

Personally, I use lampcord for most of my audio hookups.

 

[Keim]

I have experimented with cables. Nothing to outlandish-I think the most I paid for an RCA cable interconnect was $75. I've tried different metals and gauges. I could hear a difference. Subtle but real.


Won't make a poor system sound good. If you have a good system it can subtly improve it.

 

[MichaelB]

The thread title is, well, misleading, but also unhelpful, and likely to invite the wrong type of reader. Any chance we can change it?

 

[ERD50]

I have experimented with cables. Nothing to outlandish-I think the most I paid for an RCA cable interconnect was $75. I've tried different metals and gauges. I could hear a difference. Subtle but real.


Won't make a poor system sound good. If you have a good system it can subtly improve it.

In some (most?) cases, I think it is more accurate to say that it can subtly change the sound.

Some of the exotic/$$$ cables I've seen have very high capacitance and/or inductance, and/or resistance. So they might change the sound slightly, modifying the frequency response a bit.

This might be perceived by some as an 'improvement', especially if they believe in high $$ cables. And in some cases, you might be able to say they legitimately improved the sound - say your system was a bit 'bright', and the cable attenuated the highs a bit.

But you could probably do the same thing with a 0.1 ohm R and a 20 cent cap.

-ERD50

.

 

[Keim]

In some (most?) cases, I think it is more accurate to say that it can subtly change the sound.

Some of the exotic/$$$ cables I've seen have very high capacitance and/or inductance, and/or resistance. So they might change the sound slightly, modifying the frequency response a bit.

This might be perceived by some as an 'improvement', especially if they believe in high $$ cables. And in some cases, you might be able to say they legitimately improved the sound - say your system was a bit 'bright', and the cable attenuated the highs a bit.

But you could probably do the same thing with a 0.1 ohm R and a 20 cent cap.

-ERD50

.

I am a fairly knowledgeable consumer. I built (from a kit) my own 2a3 tube based amps, 12au7 (tube) based pre, and speakers. I definitely understand how changing various components can impact sound.

I think change and improve can both be accurate statements.

I've heard cables that basically served as a tone control. Add or subtract a little treble or bass. To me that is a simple change.

The first time I bought "audiophile" cables it was a definite improvement. I tried Dark Side of the Moon. Suddenly I was making out the subtlest whispers and details. Marked improvement.

The above said, I don't think $$$=better. You need to listen for what has synergy. I've made my own, and achieved good results. And I've made my own out of other materials and achieved poor results...

I agree-the title of this thread needs a change.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Very few double blind test are done by audio companies concerning cable audio effects. As an engineer I can tell you very very little change, if any, can be noticed by the human ear for any reasonable sized cable. Bottom line is I very seriously doubt you could tell the difference between the over priced monster cables and zip cord used for powering your typical table lamp. If you could tell the difference, odds are 50-50 about which one you would choose as better. It's interesting that the sound that tube aficionados rave about is actually a distortion of the original signal.

Connectors can be a different issue. A flashed gold plating on the connector and soldered connections can certainly make a difference--if not immediately, certainly in longevity of a good connection. Thumping bass can make obvious a poor connection to even a tin eared skeptic like me!

 

[Keim]

Very few double blind test are done by audio companies concerning cable audio effects. As an engineer I can tell you very very little change, if any, can be noticed by the human ear for any reasonable sized cable. Bottom line is I very seriously doubt you could tell the difference between the over priced monster cables and zip cord used for powering your typical table lamp. If you could tell the difference, odds are 50-50 about which one you would choose as better. It's interesting that the sound that tube aficionados rave about is actually a distortion of the original signal.

Connectors can be a different issue. A flashed gold plating on the connector and soldered connections can certainly make a difference--if not immediately, certainly in longevity of a good connection. Thumping bass can make obvious a poor connection to even a tin eared skeptic like me!

Out of curiosity, ever give a listen to cable changes yourself, Ark?

Tubes are an interesting beast. Different tubes can sound very different. Differences in imaging, and equalization.

 

[BBQ-Nut]

I wish I could not tell any differences.


But, went into the rabbit hole and had my own NFW WTF experiences.


Contentious issue across the internet...easily explodes...put the cables down and step back slowly please...

 

[Keim]

I wish I could not tell any differences.


But, went into the rabbit hole and had my own NFW WTF experiences.


Contentious issue across the internet...easily explodes...put the cables down and step back slowly please...

NFW WTF What do these mean (I think I know WTF...)

 

[HFWR]

No freakin' way...

 

[BBQ-Nut]

NFW WTF What do these mean (I think I know WTF...)

NFW - no f.... way!

 

[Keim]

NFW - no f.... way!

I suspected a variation. I'm rough like that.

 

[jimbee]

Tubes are an interesting beast. Different tubes can sound very different. Differences in [-]imaging, and equalization[/-] distortion.

Fixed.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I use pretty cheap speaker cable

 

[jim584672]

I remember Best Buy used to sell "Monster" HDMI cables for top dollar. Total scam.

 

[Keim]

Fixed.

Could be. Here is what I know-and all that matters to me. I like it.


Most people listening to my system say it is the best sound they have ever heard. I built the amplification and speaker chain for about $1k. Musical. Engaging. Dynamic. Enjoyable.

Had a professional musician over. Multiple albums, and has toured extensively in US and Europe. He planned to stay for a few minutes. Got the stereo going. Pretty soon he was asking "Can you play this... Ooooh nice. How about playing this..." He lost track of time, and stayed playing various songs for 1.5 hours.

If that is the result of distortion-I say BRING IT ON, BABY!

 

[M Paquette]

Got too much money and time on your hands?

Ethernet cable for audio purity? Bah.

The real improvements come from proper power connections, using properly 'baked' power cables and outlets. These avoid unpleasant distortions from power 'sag' while playing demanding pieces with high dynamic range. I recommend the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets, vastly superior to that Hubell or Leviton your home builder installed. Don't forget the GTX outlet frame to minimize sonomagnetic flux deformation. If you like a slightly warmer, more laid-back presentation, go with the Furutech GTX-D Gold outlets. I consider both to be superior to the Oyaide R1 outlets.

Either Furutech outlet is a superb match for The Essence Reference-II power cords with Furutech plugs.

If nothing else, make sure all your cables have been cryoed to -300 degrees F or lower. Make sure all exposed screws in all wall plates have their slots properly oriented. When properly aligned, the effect is truly wonderful, as though the veils have been lifted from your ears.

* All language and advice cribbed from actual audiophile web sites

 

[BBQ-Nut]

Told ya....buh bye...

 

[REWahoo]

How rude...

 

[ejman]

Ethernet cable for audio purity? Bah.

The real improvements come from proper power connections, using properly 'baked' power cables and outlets. These avoid unpleasant distortions from power 'sag' while playing demanding pieces with high dynamic range. I recommend the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets, vastly superior to that Hubell or Leviton your home builder installed. Don't forget the GTX outlet frame to minimize sonomagnetic flux deformation. If you like a slightly warmer, more laid-back presentation, go with the Furutech GTX-D Gold outlets. I consider both to be superior to the Oyaide R1 outlets.

Either Furutech outlet is a superb match for The Essence Reference-II power cords with Furutech plugs.

If nothing else, make sure all your cables have been cryoed to -300 degrees F or lower. Make sure all exposed screws in all wall plates have their slots properly oriented. When properly aligned, the effect is truly wonderful, as though the veils have been lifted from your ears.

* All language and advice cribbed from actual audiophile web sites

Thank you for the information. I'll have to try it. I'm a believer in the immense effect of cryogenicating. I put my home made radio shack 18 gauge solid core hook up wire that I use for my speakers in the freezer overnite and I could not believe the difference . I've been thinking of putting my Conrad Johnson amp in the freezer too but I'm afraid my back is not as strong as it used to be and I don't know what effect that might have on the flux capacitors.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Ethernet cable for audio purity? Bah.

The real improvements come from proper power connections, using properly 'baked' power cables and outlets. These avoid unpleasant distortions from power 'sag' while playing demanding pieces with high dynamic range. I recommend the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets, vastly superior to that Hubell or Leviton your home builder installed. Don't forget the GTX outlet frame to minimize sonomagnetic flux deformation. If you like a slightly warmer, more laid-back presentation, go with the Furutech GTX-D Gold outlets. I consider both to be superior to the Oyaide R1 outlets.

Either Furutech outlet is a superb match for The Essence Reference-II power cords with Furutech plugs.

If nothing else, make sure all your cables have been cryoed to -300 degrees F or lower. Make sure all exposed screws in all wall plates have their slots properly oriented. When properly aligned, the effect is truly wonderful, as though the veils have been lifted from your ears.

* All language and advice cribbed from actual audiophile web sites

None of this is of any use unless you are using oxygen free copper (preferably refined south of the equator so the molecules have the proper right handed orientation) in your cables!

I did audio systems for corporate and VIP aircraft some years back. Big $$$.

Cables, unless they are extremely poorly made or sized make no difference that is discernible in the range of human hearing for the lengths used in a normal installation.

Connectors/connections can make a big difference as can switches and any other item in the electrical circuit.

Placing cables near something that has electrical noise in the audio range can affect the output. Rare but it happens. Shielded cable and/or twisted cable can make a difference there but honestly most home installs have little need of this.

Distortion vs enhancement is in the ear of the listener. Tube listeners like certain distortion and I admit that I like the sound of some tube amps better than the more accurate reproduction of the recording. But accept that for what it is--you are changing the sound from what was recorded.

If you want proof of how little accurate representation matters, look at the settings on many equalizers and the built in modes in many audio amps. They distort the sound. They just distort it in a way the listener likes.

Cables on the other hand, have very little affect either way. Double blind and ABX testing consistently shows this. This is why cable manufactures hate them and don't do them. If you can't hear the difference, you can't hear the difference. So then you get articles about how double blind testing isn't adequate.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Thank you for the information. I'll have to try it. I'm a believer in the immense effect of cryogenicating. I put my home made radio shack 18 gauge solid core hook up wire that I use for my speakers in the freezer overnite and I could not believe the difference . I've been thinking of putting my Conrad Johnson amp in the freezer too but I'm afraid my back is not as strong as it used to be and I don't know what effect that might have on the flux capacitors.

Flux capacitors can't be undersized. I use this automotive part in all my applications--

EB Enterprises 121G - Flux Capacitor | O'Reilly Auto Parts

 

[jimbee]

Could be. Here is what I know-and all that matters to me. I like it.

The fact that you like it is the most important result.

Most people listening to my system say it is the best sound they have ever heard. I built the amplification and speaker chain for about $1k. Musical. Engaging. Dynamic. Enjoyable.

Had a professional musician over. Multiple albums, and has toured extensively in US and Europe. He planned to stay for a few minutes. Got the stereo going. Pretty soon he was asking "Can you play this... Ooooh nice. How about playing this..." He lost track of time, and stayed playing various songs for 1.5 hours.

If that is the result of distortion-I say BRING IT ON, BABY!

You can design and build a good audio amplifier using tubes. It just costs more money than using solid-state components for a given design target.

 

[ERD50]

I am a fairly knowledgeable consumer. I built (from a kit) my own 2a3 tube based amps, 12au7 (tube) based pre, and speakers. I definitely understand how changing various components can impact sound.

I think change and improve can both be accurate statements.

I've heard cables that basically served as a tone control. Add or subtract a little treble or bass. To me that is a simple change.

The first time I bought "audiophile" cables it was a definite improvement. I tried Dark Side of the Moon. Suddenly I was making out the subtlest whispers and details. Marked improvement. ....

Yes, change and 'improve' can both be accurate statements. I meant that if it didn't come across.

I won't 'argue' about what someone says they hear. That is perception, and I can't get in their head.

I'm an amateur musician, and I have been amazed at what I can hear in an instrument that I didn't hear at first, and I'm certain the vast majority of people would not hear. Perception can be amazingly sensitive.

That said, I'm also an engineer, and a cable is made up of R,L, and C. You could talk about coupling as well, but with the low impedance and low efficiency of speakers, I don't expect reasonable differences would make a difference. And for there to be a real difference to hear, there has to be a real difference (that is, if the perception has an actual physical basis)! The engineer in me, who is also listening to the musician in me says, most of these difference don't qualify as being great enough to expect someone to actually perceive. Color me skeptical.

Very few double blind test are done by audio companies concerning cable audio effects. ...

Although blind listening test would seem to settle the issue, I think it can be difficult. I have a hard time picking out a low bit rate mp3 from a higher bit rate in a side-side test. However, it seems to me that I 'tire' and get bored with the low bit rate after 10 minutes or so. I suspect that the stuff that is missing, while not immediately obvious, does take a toll over some time.

I compare it to a car seat - two different seats might seem fine for a 5 minute test drive, but maybe one becomes unbearable to sit in for five hours. But hey, you tested them side-by-side!

Distortion vs enhancement is in the ear of the listener. Tube listeners like certain distortion and I admit that I like the sound of some tube amps better than the more accurate reproduction of the recording. But accept that for what it is--you are changing the sound from what was recorded. ...

Yep. I have no doubt that his system sounds fantastic. But that can be because of the distortion. Heck, it's all an illusion anyway, it's ALL distortion in a sense. Nothing wrong in picking the distortion you like. But I agree, it is best to recognize it for what it is.

-ERD50