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auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 06:35 AM   #1
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auto insurance warning

i know i mentioned this once before but its worth repeating as now a neighbor just fell into the same trap and is having a claim denied:

husband and wife cannot have seperate auto insurance policies by 2 different companies and drive each others cars under most policies.

as an example when we got married 2 years ago i had geico and my wife had statefarm and until the policies ran out we kept it that way although we would on occassion drive each others car. BAD MOVE!

check the wording on your policy , odds are it says you are covered when driving a vehicle you own or a temporary vehicle not owned by you or a relative..

look up the definition of "you" in your policy .. it says you means husband and wife.

heres an excerpt from the letter dening payment of an accident when

tim was driving his wifes car while his was in for repair and tim had an accident.



14. 'You' means the policyholder named in the declarations and his or her spouse if a resident of the same household."
claiments do not dispute that, at the time of the accident, Wendy was Tim's spouse and that the two resided in the same household. Therefore, by the clear language of the policy, Wendy fit within the definitions of both "you" and "relative." Therefore, Wendy's Toyota was an automobile owned by "either you or a relative," which by policy definition cannot be a "nonowned auto" for Tim.



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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 11:46 AM   #2
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Re: auto insurance warning

Quote:
husband and wife cannot have separate auto insurance policies by 2 different companies
Why would you do this anyway since most good companies give you a multi-car discount when you have more than one auto insured on the same policy?
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 11:59 AM   #3
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Re: auto insurance warning

for us it was because we had just gotten married and my daughter was on my policy with geico and my wife had state farm with her son.

we wanted to wait until those policies were close to terminating before we went with just 1.

in my neighbors case he had his car thru his company at work and his wife had a different company for her car and the home insurance.

its more common in 2nd marriages where say i dont want a policy with my wife and her son and have my rates and liability tied in to him.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 12:14 PM   #4
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Re: auto insurance warning

This is somewhat confusing to me. I always thought it was the car that was insured for liability, not the driver. So even if your car was stolen and involved in a serious accident, it would be covered by the car's liability policy. Am I wrong about this?
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 12:24 PM   #5
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Re: auto insurance warning

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So even if your car was stolen and involved in a serious accident, it would be covered by the car's liability policy.
I don't believe this is correct. If the car owner allows another driver to operate the vehicle he is covered. A stolen car does not seem to fit this defination IMO.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 12:45 PM   #6
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Re: auto insurance warning

read your policy definitions. thats the issue insurance dosnt carry overand cover eveyone who drives your car. . only when a vehicle is considered not owned by you or a relative does the vehicle qualify as temporary or substitute vehicle. ..... my own policy does state the "you" is spouses, meaning if we have different companies and my wife drives my car than my policy wont cover her because she is an-uninsured owner since shes not listed on my policy and doesnt qualify as a non owner driver under policy definitions. .

thats what the letter above from geico was explaining.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 12:52 PM   #7
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Re: auto insurance warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE'd@51
This is somewhat confusing to me. I always thought it was the car that was insured for liability, not the driver. So even if your car was stolen and involved in a serious accident, it would be covered by the car's liability policy. Am I wrong about this?
the insurance follows the vehicle up to a point .but with some restrictions depending on policy wording. one of which a spouse and even a relative may not be covered driving your car unless listed on your policy, strangers are okay but not spouses or relatives . you must read your policy.


a stolen car isnt covered because they must have your permission to use the vehicle in order for your insurance to cover them.
normally if i allow you to drive my car and you crash my policy is primary and covers liability and property damage. if the limits of the policy are reached than your insurance will act as a secondary on liabilty over and above but no property damage
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:01 PM   #8
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Re: auto insurance warning

my own policy wording?:

Under Section I, we will pay damages which an insured becomes legally obligated to pay because of:

bodily injury, sustained by a person, and;
damage to or destruction of property, arising out of the ownership, maintenance or use of the owned auto or a non-owned auto. We will defend any suit for damages payable under the terms of this policy. We may investigate and settle any claim or suit

."
"5. 'Non-owned auto' means an automobile or trailer not owned by or furnished for the regular use of either you or a relative, other than a temporary substitute auto.

"6. 'Owned auto' means:

(a) a vehicle described in this policy for which a premium charge is shown for these coverages;

a trailer owned by you;
a private passenger, farm or utility auto, ownership of which you acquire during the policy period or for which you enter into a lease during the policy period for six months or more, if
(i) it replaces an owned auto as defined in (a) above; or

(ii) we insure all private passenger, farm and utility autos owned or leased by you on the date of the acquisition, and you ask us to add it to the policy no more than 30 days later;

(d) a temporary substitute auto.

. . . .

"8. 'Relative' means a person related to you who resides in your household.

"9. 'Temporary substitute auto' means an automobile or trailer, not owned by you, temporarily used with the permission of the owner. This vehicle must be used as a substitute for the owned auto or trailer when withdrawn from normal use because of its breakdown, repair, servicing, loss or destruction.

. . . .

"14. 'You' means the policyholder named in the declarations and his or her spouse if a resident of the same household."



now looking at the letter dening the claim you can see the problem here:

'You' means the policyholder named in the declarations and his or her spouse if a resident of the same household."
claiments do not dispute that, at the time of the accident, Wendy was Tim's spouse and that the two resided in the same household. Therefore, by the clear language of the policy, Wendy fit within the definitions of both "you" and "relative." Therefore, Wendy's Toyota was an automobile owned by "either you or a relative," which by policy definition cannot be a "nonowned auto" for Tim.

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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:30 PM   #9
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Re: auto insurance warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
a stolen car isnt covered because they must have your permission to use the vehicle in order for your insurance to cover them.
I find this troubling, since the victim could sue me as the owner of the car.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:41 PM   #10
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Re: auto insurance warning

id imagine if its stolen there is no negligance on your behalf so you wouldnt be liable but heck if things were this easy we wouldnt be discussing this topic right?
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:43 PM   #11
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Re: auto insurance warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE'd@51
I find this troubling, since the victim could sue me as the owner of the car.
I don't think it works quite that way. If your car is stolen and the thief injures someone with the car, the injured party may sue you as owner of the car. IIRC, the insurance company will have to defend you. You should win the suit because you were not driving the car, provided you were not otherwise negligent. Sometimes it gets iffy though if a relative or friend "steals" the car.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:47 PM   #12
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Re: auto insurance warning

it says for insurance to cover the car they must have your permission. hense not stolen. hmmmmmmm back to square 1
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 01:55 PM   #13
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Re: auto insurance warning

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Originally Posted by Martha
If your car is stolen and the thief injures someone with the car, the injured party may sue you as owner of the car. IIRC, the insurance company will have to defend you. You should win the suit because you were not driving the car, provided you were not otherwise negligent.
This troubles me as well. Who compensates the victim? The thief most likely has no money. I would think I would probably lose the case (it's my car), and my insurance company would pay the damages.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 02:08 PM   #14
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Re: auto insurance warning

Back to the original issue, I'm not sure I see the problem here ...

Sure, my wife (domestic partner, girlfriend, SO, etc.), if living at the same address, can't drive my car under her policy. But she *can* drive my car under my policy.

This is the usual provision for any driver, operating with proper permission. Or am I missing something in the convoluted wording of my State Farm policy?

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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 02:22 PM   #15
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Re: auto insurance warning

I think I must have a policy that is an exception to the 2 policy snag. I have uninsured driver coverage, but my policy only defines who is an insured person...

Quote:
Automobile - means a motor vehicle designed for use principally upon public highways for the primary purpose of transporting persons or property.

Household Member - means any person who is actually residing in your household and who is:
a. related to you by blood, marriage, or adoption; or
b. under the age of 21 and in your care.

Insured Person - means:
a. You
b. Any household member. However, [regarding vehicles & watercraft] a household member is an insured person only while maintaining or using an automobile or watercraft owned by you, rented or leased to you or on your behalf, loaned to you or furnished for your regular use.
The way I read that, any household member is covered when driving any vehicle I own, lease, rent or which is loaned or furnished to me for regular use. (Heck, the DW could have driven the work car and been covered. ) My DW would be covered, even if we had gotten married and started living together after the policy went into effect, because she fit the definition of household member and was therefore an insured driver for any vehicle I owned. There is no requirement for me to uniltaraly update them about household members, but they send me forms every year (or 2?) requiring me to list all household members. Also, when the kids turn 15 they are excluded by name on the policy until I add them as a driver.

The coverage section talks about what they will pay regarding any legal liability incurred by an insured person. So, if a thief steals my car, the insurance company has no liability. I don't see where I would be liable if someone stole my car, unless I committed an act or ommission that was willful and malicious, or grossly negligent or reckless...which my policy does not cover anyway.

Modified to add: They do require notification if there are "changes to exposure or liability." Not sure exactly what that includes.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 02:28 PM   #16
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Re: auto insurance warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE'd@51
This troubles me as well. Who compensates the victim? The thief most likely has no money. I would think I would probably lose the case (it's my car), and my insurance company would pay the damages.
Yes, the victim is SOL. But why should you (through your insurance) pay? You weren't negligent. The insurance company is defending you, not your car.

I wonder if the victim's uninsured motorist coverage would cover. Maybe.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 02:37 PM   #17
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Re: auto insurance warning

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I wonder if the victim's uninsured motorist coverage would cover.
i expect it would ... that being the purpose of such coverage.
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-24-2006, 09:20 PM   #18
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Re: auto insurance warning

[quote=Peter ]
Back to the original issue, I'm not sure I see the problem here ...

Sure, my wife (domestic partner, girlfriend, SO, etc.), if living at the same address, can't drive my car under her policy. But she *can* drive my car under my policy.

This is the usual provision for any driver, operating with proper permission. Or am I missing something in the convoluted wording of my State Farm policy?


better read your policy, she may not be able to drive your car under yours or hers.

as my policy with geico reads and my neighbors with all state her driving your car wouldnt be allowed if shes a wife as she dosnt fit the description of vehicle owner or non owner a girl friend would and be covered under yours
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-25-2006, 01:43 AM   #19
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Re: auto insurance warning

Why not just call up and put the spouse on your policy and you on hers... as named drivers... I don't think it cost any more.. but what the heck do I know as I am not married....

BTW, if a car is stolen, and in an accident, the insurance company pays.. at least here in Texas from the few that I know about.. I think all states have their own quirks...
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Re: auto insurance warning
Old 12-25-2006, 03:26 AM   #20
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Re: auto insurance warning

yes adding them is the answere. not knowing to add them is the problem
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