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Old 06-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #101
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(Psst: Yesterday wasn't Monday...)
I did know yesterday wasn't Monday.

But the "schedule appointment" page on their site didn't say closed on Sunday, so I entered my info there to get the scheduling in the hopper.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM   #102
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The irony is that dealers don't make much money at all on new cars. All the profit is in service and used cars.
A very good point.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:05 PM   #103
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The irony is that dealers don't make much money at all on new cars. All the profit is in service and used cars.
One exception on "new car" profit: Most of the local dealers (here in the heartland) load up their new cars with "dealer options" (from unneeded rust proofing and "finish sealer" to pin striping to special wheel covers to 200 watt sound systems to after-market wheels and tires.) I have seen cars with close to $3K worth of these useless extras. When I have talked to new car sales people in the past 20 years, I have stated up front that "I will not pay for dealer added options. The dealership is welcome to restore the car to 'original' condition before negotiations begin." That usually ends the negotiations and I go find a good used car someplace else. Heh, heh, my latest used car was "loaded" with extras and I paid virtually nothing extra vs a base model of similar age (being 15 years old is the great equalizer, I guess.) YMMV
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:30 PM   #104
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One exception on "new car" profit:........
Right, the unwanted add-ons and the exorbitant "document" fees are a sad attempt to claw back a little more new car profit.

In my old j*b at MegaMotors I visited a dealership to see why they had such extremely high tire balance warranty. I found that they were sticking larger aftermarket tires and wheels on every new truck (at a nice mark up). The only problem was that the new tires and wheels were not as uniformly round as original equipment and caused excessive vibration. I popped that balloon.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:58 PM   #105
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I will only go to a dealership on a recall item. Most dealerships are run by pirates.
This. When they wanted $750 for an oil change and rear brake pad replacement, I walked out and will never go back unless it's a recall.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:45 PM   #106
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Dealers, Franchises and independents all have a few bad apples. I've seen it first hand. As I 19 y.o. I delivered auto parts for a year. We had a shop there and did lots of brake drum turning, and rotors. Not all the independent guys had the equipment back then. There were quarterly inspection periods, when they hit volumes went haywire. I noticed some of the independent guys sending in drums, rotors that looked perfect. Talking with the older wiser shop guy, he let me know it's the garage. I was right, perfectly good parts being worked over. He explained the same garages wanted to ensure as much material was removed so they could replace the drum, rotor after a few turnings.

Same thing happened when AC Delco Freedom batteries came out. Every Caddy or other vehicles owned by less aware customers that went to some shops had to have a brand new maintenance free battery. Most of the cores were less than 1.5 years old.

This stuff only happened at some shops, others were above board.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #107
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Virtually no shops turn rotors anymore with the cheap castings coming out of CHina, a set of rotors or drums for an average car is $20/each side. (yes, some cars still use rear brake drums).

For higher end cars and sports cars, there is another level(s) of brake equipment that is real pricey, however. For my VW Jetta TDI, Brembo brand rotors are traditionally European (1960's started - Italy), but in recent years, they have JV'd with Chinese companies.

While service is expensive at dealerships, and also independent shops, the markup on parts is very high.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #108
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That was in '76. Point is some shops set out to fix anything they can convince someone it needs fixing, doesn't matter to them if it needs fixed, it's profit. Others build their reputation and treat less informed people better. You have to make that destinction.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:35 PM   #109
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(LBYM!) I do my own simple maintenance (oil, cabin filter, air filter, and other simple stuff) and don't use dealership service on others. I don't use private, independently owned shops either. I've caught few of them trying to lie their way to replace things when my wife took our car for a simple oil change.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:35 AM   #110
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Dealerships don't make much money on car sales anymore, the profits come from the service department, so it does pay to shop around. One reason that many brands offer 2 years free service is to get you used to using their service department when the free stuff runs out.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:33 AM   #111
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People persist in being people. I haven't met any more shyster mechanics than electricians or doctors or people from any other line of work. ... The dealership tech is often dealing with newer rigs for which he may not have an internal data base of common failures and quick corrections - in that respect he's like a fresh new doctor.

The service advisor (who may not be a mechanic or particularly knowledgable) passes the customer complaint to the mechanic, who then diagnoses the cause and effects the correction. The service advisor then gets to translate complaint,cause, and correction back to the customer and weather the unhappiness directed at him or her because "if you'da paid $xx,000 the car shouldn't break".
+1
Very good point about the chain of communication between the customer and the techs in a large shop or dealership. Things can get lost in the translation - in either direction. Larger shops tend to have the advantage of more resources, training, tools, etc., to handle many repairs and vehicles. Small shops have the advantage of more direct communication between the customer and the tech.

In either case, good people are the key, as with anything else.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:36 AM   #112
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The irony is that dealers don't make much money at all on new cars. All the profit is in service and used cars.
+1

True that.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:03 PM   #113
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Brought my car to a dealer today to have some service (recall) done. The place was actually pretty good. Polite.

Though I did overhear other customers saying "Ouch..it's costs that much?" (But I'm sure cost shock isn't exclusive to dealers).

I ended up getting a spare Master Key made for my car as I'm always afraid that I'll lock myself out. Price was actually less than I thought as the copy included the key itself and the remote entry. I do miss the days though when getting a spare key made was as simple as just going to a hardware store and spending about $1.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:08 PM   #114
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............
I ended up getting a spare Master Key made for my car as I'm always afraid that I'll lock myself out. Price was actually less than I thought as the copy included the key itself and the remote entry. I do miss the days though when getting a spare key made was as simple as just going to a hardware store and spending about $1.
Keys with the passive theft resistant chip are more expensive, but you can buy them relatively inexpensively on eBay and program them yourself (the car does it). Have a lock shop cut the key.

Ditto for the remotes.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:13 PM   #115
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Brought my car to a dealer today to have some service (recall) done. The place was actually pretty good. Polite.

Though I did overhear other customers saying "Ouch..it's costs that much?" (But I'm sure cost shock isn't exclusive to dealers).
On a new car I bought recently, I've bought an extended warranty for $2k to cover up to 10 years/100000 miles.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:31 PM   #116
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Keys with the passive theft resistant chip are more expensive, but you can buy them relatively inexpensively on eBay and program them yourself (the car does it). Have a lock shop cut the key.

Ditto for the remotes.
Actually, originally, I just wanted a spare key without the remote but one I can keep in my wallet and open the door should I look myself out.

But I think something got lost in the translation when setting up the appointment online. I mention this in the live chat. Then again in an email. Today, when I checked in for service, the guy didn't know anything about the spare key. When I said I wanted a copy of my key he asked "A master key?". I said, "Yeah." but probably should have said I just want one to put in my wallet. But when all was done, I see the spare with remote and all..but at a price I was willing to pay for just the key itself without remote.

As I think about this though, I like having a spare with remote more. In case I lose the original..or if on the road the remote battery dies, then I have a duplicate spare. Plus, I drive anyhow with just the car key in ignition, so after rearranging my key chain a bit to drop off some weight, I'm a happy camper. I'll use the one free key, and then keep my regular set (car, house, mailbox, solar key chain flashlight) in my pocket.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:09 PM   #117
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The Honda Accord came with a valet (dumb) key with no remote functions. I keep that on a separate key ring from the one I use for the car. So If I do lock myself out I have the valet key to open the door.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:42 PM   #118
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I probably could have a valet (dumb) key made just to get in my car if needed.

But on the other hand, I don't mind the splurge and simplicity of now having 3 master keys that all do the same thing. One I'll keep at home. Another (my backup when in the car) on my key chain with my home and mailbox. The other as my main car key.

Guess now I should make sure to in the future buy pants with huge pockets
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:12 PM   #119
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On a new car I bought recently, I've bought an extended warranty for $2k to cover up to 10 years/100000 miles.
It's more than likely not an "extended warranty" but a 3rd party insurance contract to cover non-routine repairs (normal maintenance is excluded - mostly wear items like brake pads, muffler, catalytic converter, timing belt, etc). Auto manufacturers don't allow warranty extensions unless they decide (under pressure) to extend a particular item, like Honda did with certain model defective auto transmissions in the late 1990s.

I sure hope the insurance contract period starts after the manufacturer's warranty you paid for expires and doesn't run concurrently.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 PM   #120
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It's more than likely not an "extended warranty" but a 3rd party insurance contract to cover non-routine repairs (normal maintenance is excluded - mostly wear items like brake pads, muffler, catalytic converter, timing belt, etc). Auto manufacturers don't allow warranty extensions unless they decide (under pressure) to extend a particular item, like Honda did with certain model defective auto transmissions in the late 1990s.

I sure hope the insurance contract period starts after the manufacturer's warranty you paid for expires and doesn't run concurrently.
You are correct and it covers to 100k/10 years.
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