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Automakers to invest $300B in electric vehicles
Old 01-13-2019, 09:32 AM   #1
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Automakers to invest $300B in electric vehicles

This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:

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A Reuters analysis of 29 global automakers found that they are investing at least $300 billion in electric vehicles [over the next 5-10 years], with more than 45 percent of that earmarked for China.
https://graphics.reuters.com/AUTOS-I...3HD/index.html

The article provides a breakdown by manufacturer of their planned EV spending for R&D and procurement, and in what country those dollars will be spent.

VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.

Of the $300B total, $136B is targeted to China, $72B to Germany and $34B to the US.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:51 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:



https://graphics.reuters.com/AUTOS-I...3HD/index.html

The article provides a breakdown by manufacturer of their planned EV spending for R&D and procurement, and in what country those dollars will be spent.

VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.

Of the $300B total, $136B is targeted to China, $72B to Germany and $34B to the US.
Interesting. These are only budget estimates and time will tell how that goes. If this comes true, and there are buyers for those cars, I wonder who will be developing additional power plants and charging networks to supply the necessary electrons?
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:
.
Pouring fuel on an electric car debate?
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:13 AM   #4
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Pouring fuel on an electric car debate?
Congratulations on getting the joke.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #5
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If this comes true, and there are buyers for those cars, I wonder who will be developing additional power plants and charging networks to supply the necessary electrons?
Good question. Looks like the Chinese government, as well as the Germans, may have some major infrastructure issues to address.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #6
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You haven't been parking in front of Tesla chargers, have you?

https://electrek.co/2019/01/01/tesla...arger-protest/
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:50 AM   #7
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Congratulations on getting the joke.
I like to look for connections
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:12 PM   #8
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.......
VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.
.............
Yea, but they will lie about the range.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:16 PM   #9
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You haven't been parking in front of Tesla chargers, have you?

https://electrek.co/2019/01/01/tesla...arger-protest/
I hope those morons all got towed?
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:49 PM   #10
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We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:05 PM   #11
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We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.
Solar won't produce enough electricity. There's not enough steel in the world to build enough windmills to produce any appreciable amount of electricity. Only one nuclear plant has been completed in the last 20 years. And politicians have essentially tried to shut down the fossel fuel generating business.

How much diesel fuel will be required to generate the electricity to power millions of electric cars?

Electric cars would work in Europe where the cities are very compact and the people use mass transit. Those Europeans wealthy enough to own cars seldom go very far from home, and electric cars would work for them.

But American cities are often so spread out. An electric car in Atlanta area might have to be recharged twice a day. That's when hybrids would do the job.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:05 PM   #12
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:57 PM   #13
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The EV development will be interesting to watch.

I read a recent article on Bloomberg that chronicles what a reporter went through when driving a rental Tesla from Paris to Ladenburg, Germany. The article titled "Road Tripping Around Europe in a Tesla Is Less Fun Than You’d Think" described how this distance of 534 km (332 mi) one-way requires a night stop in either direction, with a lot of range anxiety and time spent looking for an alternate charging station when an en-route Tesla charging station was out of order.

So, for EVs to be widely accepted, a lot of infrastructure has to be put in. In Aug 2018, there were 1 million EVs on the road in Europe, out of 300 million registered vehicles. That's 1/3 of 1%.

It appears to me European car makers cannot afford to lose out on the EV segment to the Chinese, and to American companies. Everybody is out spending a lot of money, but how much capital will be needed totally?

It reminds me of the broadband boom in the 2000 tech meltdown. A lot of companies ran fiber optics every which way, and across the ocean. All that dark fibers eventually got used probably, but not before many companies went bankrupt, and a couple of decades has passed.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:15 PM   #14
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It can't be done. We are not up to it. It is too hard. We don't need to do anything different, anyway. There are no possible alternative solutions.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:49 PM   #15
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We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.

I have no idea myself. Some Norwegian did the maths if Norway vent all electric. We would need about 5% more electricity.

Personally I charge my EV home mostly. My last electricity bill had the usual kWh number. So me charging at home has no impact.

I live in an old house and mostly use firewood for heating in the winter. No A/C in the summer.


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I read a recent article on Bloomberg that chronicles what a reporter went through when driving a rental Tesla from Paris to Ladenburg, Germany. The article titled "Road Tripping Around Europe in a Tesla Is Less Fun Than You’d Think" described how this distance of 534 km (332 mi) one-way requires a night stop in either direction, with a lot of range anxiety and time spent looking for an alternate charging station when an en-route Tesla charging station was out of order.

I can understand becoming stressed when charging stations are down. Reminds me of visiting my grandma years ago and not beeing able to return since the local gas station was closed for the night and no self serving. I did not care much since one more of grandmas delicious dinners was a great plan B.

I wonder if the journalist had driven a Tesla before? The car will inform you when superchargers are down. They also come with charging cables for other EV charging stations. And many gas stations on the Autobahn and similar have such charging stations. And shopping centres, restaurants and parking spots.

Last summer my friend and I drove around France in his Tesla Model S for a couple of weeks. Did most of our charging while eating dinner. No range anxiety.

It's popular among Norwegian Tesla owners to drive to southern Europe in the summer. I don't think it would be so popular if they had trouble charging? I will probably find out soon since I'm planning a sunbird trip myself soon.
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:45 PM   #16
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...
I wonder if the journalist had driven a Tesla before? The car will inform you when superchargers are down. They also come with charging cables for other EV charging stations. And many gas stations on the Autobahn and similar have such charging stations. And shopping centres, restaurants and parking spots.

Last summer my friend and I drove around France in his Tesla Model S for a couple of weeks. Did most of our charging while eating dinner. No range anxiety.

It's popular among Norwegian Tesla owners to drive to southern Europe in the summer. I don't think it would be so popular if they had trouble charging? I will probably find out soon since I'm planning a sunbird trip myself soon.

As the author wrote, she claimed she was no stranger to EVs, but only for city driving.

Quote:
As a resident of Paris, I’ve driven plenty of electric vehicles. The city has had shared battery-powered cars since 2011, and there are charging docks in every neighborhood. But I’d only taken short rides, and I wanted to see how it felt to drive an electric car hundreds of miles from home...
She had planned to use the Tesla charging station en route, but 50 km from that station, a message popped up to tell her it became "unavailable". This, and some other mishaps made her trip less than fun.

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... On a quiet Sunday morning, I head east toward the Champagne region and the German border. I don’t know it yet, but I’m entering an alternate universe in which the laws of road trips will be turned on their head. Over the next four days, I’ll spend 11 hours and 42 minutes charging—and that’s not counting failed attempts and time wasted on detours to stations—on what Google Maps tells me should be a 10-hour trip.
Attempts to charge off regular wall sockets overnight somehow failed. She purposedly rented this Tesla because it advertised the highest range among all EVs, but upon driving the computer kept adjusting the range downward (she suspected the cold temperature was an important factor). Driving around looking for charging points while the estimated range kept ticking down was stressful.

She tried to charge at a non-Tesla charging station with an instant app via her smartphone, but it rejected her request. And of course, charging via a regular Level 2 charger would be painfully slow.

The article may be behind a paywall, but somehow I got access without being a subscriber: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...sla-road-trip/
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:49 PM   #17
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The article also mentioned that "... recent Deloitte survey showed fewer than 6 percent of European consumers are ready to go full-electric in 2019... According to a survey by Ipsos Mori, 41 percent of Germans and 36 percent of French fear not being able to top up their battery—more than twice the percentage that cited insufficient range as an impediment to buying an electric car..."

Of course, the above sentiment will change once the infrastructure gets built up. How long will that take and how much money is involved? I certainly do not know.
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
... On a quiet Sunday morning, I head east toward the Champagne region and the German border. I don’t know it yet, but I’m entering an alternate universe in which the laws of road trips will be turned on their head. Over the next four days, I’ll spend 11 hours and 42 minutes charging—and that’s not counting failed attempts and time wasted on detours to stations—on what Google Maps tells me should be a 10-hour trip.

Oh my - that really was a nightmare of a trip!
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:44 PM   #19
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Solar won't produce enough electricity. There's not enough steel in the world to build enough windmills to produce any appreciable amount of electricity. Only one nuclear plant has been completed in the last 20 years. And politicians have essentially tried to shut down the fossel fuel generating business.

How much diesel fuel will be required to generate the electricity to power millions of electric cars?

Electric cars would work in Europe where the cities are very compact and the people use mass transit. Those Europeans wealthy enough to own cars seldom go very far from home, and electric cars would work for them.

But American cities are often so spread out. An electric car in Atlanta area might have to be recharged twice a day. That's when hybrids would do the job.
Still get the most bang for the buck with a hybrid.

Choose the hybrid option ($800 extra) on a new RAV4 AWD and combined mpg goes from 29 to 39 mpg, 41 mpg city. Even at $2/gallon gasoline, a no-brainer.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:42 PM   #20
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What are projected impacts/ changes to energy stocks due to EVs? A lot of folks are divided investors with big stakes in energy & oil stocks.
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