Autos - True cost to own

[imoldernu]

AAA (in 2013) used an average cost per mile of 60.8 cents per mile to estimate the average cost for 15,000 miles of driving to total $9133 per year.
That's about $25/day.
http://newsroom.aaa.com/2013/04/cost-of-owning-and-operating-vehicle-in-u-s-increases-nearly-two-percent-according-to-aaas-2013-your-driving-costs-study/

You can calcuate the "true cost to own" for a new car here at Edmunds:
True Cost to Own® (TCO®) Calculator on Edmunds.com. Just put in the name and model of the car. Remember, the estimate is for
a five year period, and includes all costs... fuel, repairs, depreciation (mmm...check that out.)registration, insurance etc.
A mid priced model comes out to about $50K over 5 years. $10K/year.

If you do change cars every five years, those costs are ongoing.
.......................................
Several alternatives...
Bicycle
Publice transportation - trains, planes, and other automobiles... taxi, Uber etc.
Keep that old car.

Using my own calculations, and the same categories and mileage as above. I estimated the actual average 15 year cost year of owning my 96 Cadillac and 98 Town car (per car) to be about $25K for five years, or $5K per year.

The difference comes from the lower initial cost (used cars), taxes, insurance, depreciation, and finance fees. There are some increased repair fees, but the rest of the costs are much lower.

Over the 15 year period, this is a savings of $75K. The major savings come from the depreciation, financing, and insurance costs.

YMMV

 

[Sarah in SC]

Interesting. I checked out the Edmunds link, but nothing I own would show up in such a late-model make/model list. Cool idea though.

I did a calculation for a friend about 8 years ago, trying to talk her out of buying a new car. Using my Quicken data, I figured up the entire cost of owning my then car, a Saturn sedan, over the life of the car to date. This included taxes, registration, the purchase cost, insurance, and parts/service. Though much of the savings could be attributed to having liability only coverage versus comp & collision, I figured that my car versus the new car she was contemplating worked out to be around $100k for a 10 year period. Granted, we do out own car repairs, and the car she was purchasing was an especially pricey one.

She still bought the car. Apparently I'd make a lousy salesperson.

 

[rodi]

I agree it's interesting.

Our cars weren't on the list (too old).
I also felt that the insurance was estimated too high.
And if you don't finance - that's another adjustment.

Given that our cars are 10 years and 20 years old... our depreciation has slowed to a crawl, our insurance costs have dropped, but our maintenance has gone up... but not by as much as you'd think.

It's funny- I still consider my 2006 Highland Hybrid (bought in 2005 when the model first came out) to be my "new" car. Maybe that's because I'm comparing it to my husbands 1995 standard bed, standard cab, 6 cyl. dodge ram pick up.

 

[Koolau]

We've had some significant non-routine repair expenses on our cars the past couple of years. Our three cars average out to a model year of 2000. Mileage averages to about 100K. On average, we've spent less than a total of $75/month on the "extra" repairs the past two years. I guess I consider this as our current "depreciation" since I don't think most 2000 model cars have much depreciation left in them.

When I get hit with a "big" bill (last one was $1000 for a fuel pump - don't ask) I say to DW "Or we could buy all new cars and pay the $1000 - for the next month's car payments on them." Then she settles down a bit.

Yeah, if money were no object, I wouldn't mind trying some of the newer cars, but I just can't justify the extra cost, especially since we don't really drive our 3 cars all that many miles. If I allowed my rationality to really kick in, I would get rid of one of the cars. Naaahhhhh! YMMV

 

[Sarah in SC]

Whew, Kool, that is a big bill for a fuel pump!

I confess we have two cars and a truck between the two of us...um, ahem, plus an old school bus and an even older motor home...yeah, no room to talk. If your rationality needs someone to complain about, please send it my way.

 

[Walt34]

Whew, Kool, that is a big bill for a fuel pump!

On some vehicles they put the fuel pump in amazing places. On my pickup truck it is inside the fuel tank. WTH!

Changing the fuel pump, if I ever need to, then requires draining the tank and dropping it out of the truck or removing the pickup bed to get to the top of the tank where the access port is.

I'd like to strangle the damn fool engineer who thought that one up. So I can see the bill for that being near $1k if it is done in an expensive area. And it is not hard to imagine it being worse on some cars.

 

[REWahoo]

On some vehicles they put the fuel pump in amazing places. On my pickup truck it is inside the fuel tank. WTH!

Changing the fuel pump, if I ever need to, then requires draining the tank and dropping it out of the truck or removing the pickup bed to get to the top of the tank where the access port is.

I'd like to strangle the damn fool engineer who thought that one up. So I can see the bill for that being near $1k if it is done in an expensive area. And it is not hard to imagine it being worse on some cars.

+1

I have a car with a fuel pump located inside the gas tank. Cost me $800+ to get it replaced - and that was in 2010.

BTW, you can get an idea of what it would cost to replace the fuel pump on your vehicle (or the cost of most other repairs) using this handy web site: Auto Repair Estimates - Get Honest Car Repair Costs

 

[ls99]

Heh, heh. Most relatively recent cars and trucks have the fuel pump in the tank. Some even have the pump and level senders as one unit. Either fails and both gets changed. For a small fee of course.

By the way a quick way to finish off the fuel pump is to let the tank go below a 1/4 frequently. The fuel in the tank is the coolant for the pump.

On pickups often the easy way is to unbolt the bed, lift it, and prop it up. Then easy access to the pump.

On my 95 Jaguar, the hard way is to extract the tank from over the rar axle via the trunk. The easy way is to remove rear seat/back, pull off the shelf under rear window. Cut a 5" square hole in the parcel shelf bottom. Fuel pump cost $15.- with free shipping. Easy access to the pump. Says a man of experience. Total time 45 minutes, in my garage.

Np way would I pay a thou for a pump change. Just my advanced cheapskate speaking.

 

[38Chevy454]

Almost all new cars have the fuel pump inside the tank. Those pumps are also fairly expensive, on top of the increased labor to replace them when they go out. Some cars the tank is less work to access, such as a panel that allows access to fuel pump without dropping the tank.

 

[Walt34]

Almost all new cars have the fuel pump inside the tank. Those pumps are also fairly expensive, on top of the increased labor to replace them when they go out.

Does anyone have any idea of what "problem" this fixed other than a poor shop balance sheet? The old style pumps bolted to the side of the engine seemed pretty reliable and were easy to replace if need be.

 

[misanman]

I think fuel injected engines need high pressure pumps that work best when located inside the tank. Maybe someone else can provide a more specific answer.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[ls99]

FI requires anywhere from 35 to 60 psi pressure. Crank driven pumps can not make that. High pressure pumps require cooling. Fuel through the pump does cool it. In tank is even better cooling. Some newr engines with direct injection into combustion chamber reqire even higher pressures. As do diesels.

 

[Walt34]

I think fuel injected engines need high pressure pumps that work best when located inside the tank. Maybe someone else can provide a more specific answer.

FI requires anywhere from 35 to 60 psi pressure. Crank driven pumps can not make that. High pressure pumps require cooling. Fuel through the pump does cool it. In tank is even better cooling. Some newr engins with direc injection into combustion chamber reqire even higher pressures. As do diesels.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks to you both.

 

[Tadpole]

We bought a new car when we retired. Our expenses have been:
Auto expenses first 4 years new 2011 Toyota Camry LE
original price $22492.24
gasoline $1802.86 $37.55/mo
insurance $2513.16 $52/mo
upkeep $202.99 $4.28/mo
subtotal $4519.01 $94/mo
Total including original purchase $27011.25


Not counting the car purchase itself we spend a little under $100/mo for the privilege of car ownership. Funny thing about the insurance - we are driving less often and locally but the insurance (AllState) has risen each year. While working, the insurance (State Farm) decreased with the age of the car. I wonder if this is because we are getting older and older. We use a tank of gas every two months. Don't know where the fuel pump is but I hope I don't need to replace it, ever.

 

[sengsational]

AAA (in 2013) used an average cost per mile of 60.8 cents per mile to estimate the average cost for 15,000 miles of driving to total $9133 per year.
That's about $25/day.

I rented brand-new sedan at Hethrow for $15/day, all-in (except fuel). Unleaded over there is over $7/gallon, but I'm still not up to $25/day, even with all of the driving I did.

 

[HF63]

Please note that in some cars the fuel pump can reach through the trunk!


Just removed the access hatch and remove the pump. The pumps are expensive if you buy the whole shroud but just replacing the pump is about 60-90 dollars Vs the 400 for the whole thing.


I just did my son's Volvo 93 for 80 dollars and 1 hour of labor.

 

[HF63]

Does anyone have any idea of what "problem" this fixed other than a poor shop balance sheet? The old style pumps bolted to the side of the engine seemed pretty reliable and were easy to replace if need be.


This pump was a mechanical type of pump run by the camshaft. Not enough pressure for individual injectors.


Some newer cars that have injectors in the combustion chamber operate at very high, high pressures when compared to cars that have a fuel rail system.

 

[Zathras]

Thanks! Very interesting.
We are contemplating a more efficient car.
It was interesting to see a 2014 SV Leaf came in at just under $5,000/year.

For a new car that is very impressive. Trying to wait for the second gen Leaf announcement, as I suspect there will be some great deals on the first gen cars.

 

[Gumby]

Here in CT, we pay property tax on the value of our cars at the same mill rate as our houses. In my town, that means I pay 2.7% of the value of my cars every year. Another incentive to avoid the new car.

 

[NW-Bound]

I pay 2.7% of a car value each year, but thank goodness our RE taxes are much less at about 0.7% of the home actual values.

 

[lja0703]

My 2013 Charger probably isn't the most efficient car but boy ....
its fun.