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Old 12-16-2014, 05:54 PM   #61
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Spideroak (mentioned in my post above) does the encryption on your computer before uploading the data.
But if the are doing the encryption then they have the means to decrypt as well? Seems to be self-defeating the purpose of encryption.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:07 PM   #62
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But if the are doing the encryption then they have the means to decrypt as well? Seems to be self-defeating the purpose of encryption.
There's typically hash keys involved so only you can decrypt your data. Since it's encrypted before transmission that implies it's decrypted at that same machine after transmission back.

The data to the low level file system is just a bunch of bits. The file system doesn't have context of the data. So no concern about encryption or not at that level.

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Old 12-16-2014, 07:56 PM   #63
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Backup was/is a msdos command which copies files and directories. It has become a more generic term, though. Image refers specifically to an exact replica on the storage media. It's common to hear image backup, file backup, online backup and so on.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:27 PM   #64
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But if the are doing the encryption then they have the means to decrypt as well? Seems to be self-defeating the purpose of encryption.
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There's typically hash keys involved so only you can decrypt your data. Since it's encrypted before transmission that implies it's decrypted at that same machine after transmission back.

The data to the low level file system is just a bunch of bits. The file system doesn't have context of the data. So no concern about encryption or not at that level.

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They have the means or algorithm to encrypt/decrypt which they provide to you in the form of software, but only you have the key. The encrypted file may be cracked without a key, but it takes huge amount of CPU power and time. So, unless you have a secret that the NSA is after, nobody will bother to crack your file. It is easier to beat the key out of you anyway.

Of course if the software writer puts in a back door, then all bets are off. However, has anybody ever heard of that being done?
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:50 PM   #65
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f course if the software writer puts in a back door, then all bets are off. However, has anybody ever heard of that being done?
Lol! You are so droll!
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:29 AM   #66
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They have the means or algorithm to encrypt/decrypt which they provide to you in the form of software, but only you have the key. The encrypted file may be cracked without a key, but it takes huge amount of CPU power and time. So, unless you have a secret that the NSA is after, nobody will bother to crack your file. It is easier to beat the key out of you anyway.

Of course if the software writer puts in a back door, then all bets are off. However, has anybody ever heard of that being done?
Nice write up.

Back doors well I've seen them implemented in systems. Mainly to ensure if the customer screwed something up support could have a way in. Over the years there was increased awarness from a security standpoint and other workarounds had to be implemented. Kind of neat seeing the change of "we've always done that, to you're finding a secure way now".

Every year we had to re certify HIPPA(and other) compliance. Yes I could have viewed someones confidential data but why, I had enough to do. I think most techs in a cloud providers shops have the same attitude.

As data deduplication becomes more mainstrean that helps make it more difficult to find as much value in backup data. Lets see, unstructured data that has been manipulated by backup software to eliminate extra bit patterns. Interesting technical challenge, poor way to wind up in jail.



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Old 12-22-2014, 11:43 AM   #67
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I opened my email last night to see that a local store has a 3TB USB hard drive on sale for $79! My, my, my! That deal is very hard for me to resist.

I must put it out of my mind by going to buy something else instead. Like wines for sale at Bevmo at 5c for the 2nd bottle. Or another store is selling 6lbs of onion for $1. I know I will use up these consumables, while on the other hand I am using less than 2TB out of the 12TB total storage I already have.

PS. Sorry to sidetrack from computer talk, but I am seeing gallons of onion soup in my immediate future. It's really good for the soul when the weather turns cold like right now.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:17 PM   #68
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I opened my email last night to see that a local store has a 3TB USB hard drive on sale for $79! My, my, my! That deal is very hard for me to resist.
That is really a good price. They have hovered around $100 for several months now.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:42 PM   #69
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I just bought 15 8TB internal hard drives, helium sealed for cooler running for $750 each. That's $100 less than when I bought another 15 about a month and a half ago. Amazing price drops. I'm waiting for the first commercially available XB hard drive.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:49 PM   #70
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I just bought 15 8TB internal hard drives, helium sealed for cooler running for $750 each. That's $100 less than when I bought another 15 about a month and a half ago. Amazing price drops. I'm waiting for the first commercially available XB hard drive.
Thirty 8TB hard drives!?!?

Wow! Are you going in to competition with Google?
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Old 12-24-2014, 03:25 PM   #71
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I just bought 15 8TB internal hard drives, helium sealed for cooler running for $750 each. That's $100 less than when I bought another 15 about a month and a half ago. Amazing price drops. I'm waiting for the first commercially available XB hard drive.
Whoa!
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #72
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I just bought 15 8TB internal hard drives, helium sealed for cooler running for $750 each. That's $100 less than when I bought another 15 about a month and a half ago. Amazing price drops. I'm waiting for the first commercially available XB hard drive.
Setting up your own commercial cloud service?
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:06 PM   #73
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Mama mia! That's some serious storage. I saw on the Web that Seagate shipped the world's first 8 TB drive in August this year. That's cutting edge stuff.

Then, I remember that in around 1983, a company (IBM?) announced the world's first 1 GB drive. It was probably the size of a washing machine.


PS. Wikipedia has everything a guy likes to know.
1980 The world's first gigabyte-capacity disk drive (2.52 GB), the IBM 3380, was the size of a refrigerator, weighed 249 kg, and had a price tag of 40,000 USD which is 114,491 USD in present day terms.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:16 PM   #74
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I use external disks and back up once a week or every other week to Time Machine.

I have a couple of Aperture photo vaults on two different disks, approaching 200 GB. (I'm going to put off converting to Lightroom as long as I can because I don't like the interface as much).

I've used Crash Plan at work, had to restore once. Wasn't too impressed with the results. Maybe I didn't configure it right but not interested in uploading files to the cloud. Even without the concerns about security and reliability, it would take too long to do the initial upload and then any recovery of hundreds of gigs of data would take long time as well.

Plus the notion of ongoing service fees for something that I could back up on relatively cheap external disks just doesn't suit me, probably penny-pinching here but I'm not convinced cloud backups are an essential service.

Yes I realize the risks of fire or theft from home. Maybe I'll get a safe like someone alluded to earlier in the thread. I could keep one of my drives with my folks for it would be a pain to retrieve once a week just to keep it up to date.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:29 PM   #75
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And just now, I see the local store that had a 3TB drive for $79 is now offering 5TB for $140. It's crazy. How do hard drive makers make any money?
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:35 PM   #76
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How do hard drive makers make any money?
Or is the price finally getting down to a normal profit margin level.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:41 PM   #77
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Chinese and Thai labor.

Remember the same year as Fukushima, there were floods in Thailand and hard drives weren't so cheap.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:53 PM   #78
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Sorry for the misleading post earlier. They weren't for me, it was a resale thing. I couldn't fill that much space if I downloaded all day. I do some purchasing for my old megacorp lab, mostly cutting edge stuff. They can't get these items through normal corporate sourcing. I was just amazed at how fast the price was coming down.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:57 PM   #79
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They can't get these items through normal corporate sourcing.
So your "Black Market" sources are able to deliver them?
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:42 PM   #80
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I just bought 15 8TB internal hard drives, helium sealed for cooler running for $750 each. That's $100 less than when I bought another 15 about a month and a half ago. Amazing price drops. I'm waiting for the first commercially available XB hard drive.
While you have only a factor of 12 to get to a petabyte drive 10**15 you have 12000 to get to 10**18 exabyte. According to Wikipedia the rate of growth of disk capacity is about 8-12% per year Hard disk drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Which implies a doubling every 6 years or so. Forecasts suggest the rate increasing up to 20% per year or perhaps a bit faster implying a doubling of 3 years. So to get to the petabyte drive (assuming no limits by physics) it could be about 10-15 years for the petabyte drive, and about 14 or so doubleings to get to 10**18, or perhaps 50 years or so.
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