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Old 10-19-2009, 02:14 PM   #81
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Hmmm...I don't know how this case will turn out. Will the parents go to jail or owe lotsa money?

I'm betting that we will be seeing this on TV very soon as a TV movie! Guess who is going to play the father? Alec Baldwin! The mom will be played by Anna Nicole Smith...(opps she passed away). The sheriffs office and military will be a bunch of idiots...with the married sheriff having several girlfriends in South America and in Mexico and using the LA Sheriff airplane to shuttle him around.

It all will end well...with the family making millions on the movie rights and the father becoming a TV movie director! Ain't America great!
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:19 PM   #82
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I'm not certain if I understand this particular case.
Let me google that for you

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Interesting case, although I'm not clear how this relates to balloon boy or the criminal punishment that people who commit deceptions should receive.
That was my fault. I thought you were taking issue with the Justice system's equality. Sorry.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:36 PM   #83
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How would you feel if the male was a narcissistic, easy to anger, domineering "boss" of the family, telling everyone what to do all the time? Like requiring his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning and childcare while he worked on his goofy projects. And requiring his wife to support his grand plans. Is she equally culpable? This is a hypothetical only: I have no idea about anything about this family. And you could reverse the roles. I know families that were run by psychopaths or narcisists. It is amazing how much control one can end up having over another and how hard some find it is to escape. Male or female.

I do have an opinion on Wife Swap. I think that parents should not go on this kind of show with their children, I just don't see it as good for the kids. The families can end up being manipulated for a show and looking worse than they are. Family should be in large part be private.
I would say that mentally competent adults need to be held accountable for their own actions. There can be extreme exceptions, but these exceptions are rare. Being married to a narcissistic easy to anger boss of the family does not give one a license to commit crimes. If that was the case, probably half the women and half the men in the country could claim this license. I don't know this family. All my knowledge comes from the video clips of the balloon boy incident and the clips of the wife swap episode(s). People claim that the husband is quick to anger, but the same is true of the wife. There is a video clip of her yelling at her "swapped husband." People here who saw the entire episode have called her a "nutcase."

But all this doesn't matter. Adults need to be held accountable for their own actions and decisions. Those who can't shouldn't be allowed to vote or drive cars.

As for Wife Swap the show, that is a good point. Should children be involved in these reality shows? I'm non-committal myself. I've seen the show a few times, probably 2-3 years ago. Entertaining, but not reality. They pick unusual families to begin with. More so, they use selective editing to generate perceived personalities for each individual (they do this with most reality shows). It's not difficult to make someone seem like someone they are not.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:00 PM   #84
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I did hear there was a 911 call made from their house in the past - possible domestic violence.
I read this too, but who is to blame (husband or wife)? There are hundreds of peer-reviewed studies demonstrating that domestic violence is a two way street. That is, in domestic violence incidents, the man unilaterally abuses the woman about 25% of the time; the woman unilaterally abuses the man about 25% of the time; the abuse is reciprocal about 50% of the time. A good summary of the peer-reviewed literature (as opposed to so-called advocacy research) is found here. Popular perception may be different (men are bad, women are victims), but popular perception is often wrong.

In the balloon boy case, people have been very quick to blame the dad (as they do in domestic violence). But mom was there too, and she appears to be equally guilty (she was in front of the camera's, called 911, etc). Additional investigation may provide an alternate story, but until then, they both appear to be guilty.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:06 PM   #85
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In the balloon boy case, people have been very quick to blame the dad (as they do in domestic violence). But mom was there too, and she appears to be equally guilty (she was in front of the camera's, called 911, etc). Additional investigation may provide an alternate story, but until then, they both appear to be guilty.
Socially, this is typically true. When a man and a woman are complicit in a crime, it seems like the default assumption is usually that he was the mastermind and the architect of the crime, it was his idea, and he cajoled or coerced her to go along for the ride.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:17 PM   #86
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A good summary of the peer-reviewed literature (as opposed to so-called advocacy research) is found here.
Excellent cite. Thank you. However,

Spousal abuse at AllExperts

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It may be pointed out, however, that while the simple tally of violent acts might be similar, studies show that men's violence usually does much more damage than women's1; women are much more likely to be injured and/or hospitalized, wives are much more likely to be killed by their husbands than the reverse, and women in general are more likely to be killed by their spouse than by all other types of assailants combined.2 In their study of severely violent couples, Neil Jacobson and John Gottman3 conclude that the frequency of violent acts is not as crucial as the impact of the violence and its function, when trying to understand spousal abuse; specifically, they state that the purpose of battering is to control and intimidate, rather than just to injure.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:51 PM   #87
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I would say that mentally competent adults need to be held accountable for their own actions.... Adults need to be held accountable for their own actions and decisions.
Oh come on ... that's so 19th century (or first half of the 20th).

From national leaders down to petty criminals, pretty much no one is accountable for anything these days.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:02 PM   #88
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I'm not certain if I understand this particular case. It seems that the alleged victim wants to sue her employer for actions that she claims have nothing to do with her employment. That is, she claims that she was ganged raped and then held captive (apparently, there was no criminal prosecution for this alleged assault). She wants to sue her employer, but her employer says that she must use arbitration due to a clause in her employment agreement. She claims that she has the right to sue her employer because the rape has nothing to do with her employment, and is hence not bound by the arbitration clause (the courts agree). Interesting case, although I'm not clear how this relates to balloon boy or the criminal punishment that people who commit deceptions should receive.
I got it! It relates to boys, girls, and someone to sue.

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Old 10-19-2009, 05:53 PM   #89
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I would say that mentally competent adults need to be held accountable for their own actions. There can be extreme exceptions, but these exceptions are rare. Being married to a narcissistic easy to anger boss of the family does not give one a license to commit crimes. If that was the case, probably half the women and half the men in the country could claim this license. I don't know this family. All my knowledge comes from the video clips of the balloon boy incident and the clips of the wife swap episode(s). People claim that the husband is quick to anger, but the same is true of the wife. There is a video clip of her yelling at her "swapped husband." People here who saw the entire episode have called her a "nutcase."


But all this doesn't matter. Adults need to be held accountable for their own actions and decisions. Those who can't shouldn't be allowed to vote or drive cars.
My issue was whether they would be equally culpable. Maybe not, it depends on the individual situation. I am not saying that there should be no consequences to the less culpable spouse.

As I said, I have no idea as to the facts in this case.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:56 PM   #90
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Oh come on ... that's so 19th century (or first half of the 20th).

From national leaders down to petty criminals, pretty much no one is accountable for anything these days.
Given the number of people we have in prison in the US as compared to the rest of the world, it look to me that people are being held accountable all the time.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:00 PM   #91
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Socially, this is typically true. When a man and a woman are complicit in a crime, it seems like the default assumption is usually that he was the mastermind and the architect of the crime, it was his idea, and he cajoled or coerced her to go along for the ride.
Strange, isn't it. There are plenty of well-documented cases of women manipulating their lovers into committing crimes (see e.g. the Stefanie Rengel killing), or taking the lead role (see e.g. the Randy Dooley murder). And even fictional movie dramas show this sort of thing (see e.g. Double Indemnity, or Body Heat).

But somehow we are socialized to believe that women are invariably nuturing and passive, and men are aggressive and domineering.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:33 PM   #92
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Given the number of people we have in prison in the US as compared to the rest of the world, it look to me that people are being held accountable all the time.
Yeah to the point we are running out of room. Escape from New York is looking more and more reality.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:55 AM   #93
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But somehow we are socialized to believe that women are invariably nuturing and passive, and men are aggressive and domineering.
Not me. My Mother was a tough hillbilly who could and would kick the crap out of anyone well into her 50s. My Dad was a peacemaker and a tolerant person who tried to see the good in people.

On gender politics, as on many other things, I carry a big shovel to move the horsepucky out of my way as I go through life.

Most of what people believe is total crap that would never withstand examination. However, most people can't perform the congnitive feat of really investigating the truth or falsity of conventional ideas. Furthermore, if they could they wouldn't want to, as they would no longer be in the comfortable mainstream of social attitudes.

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Old 10-20-2009, 04:34 AM   #94
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But somehow we are socialized to believe that women are invariably nuturing and passive,
You have obviously never met my daughters......
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:17 AM   #95
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...But somehow we are socialized to believe that women are invariably nuturing and passive, and men are aggressive and domineering.
I'll plead guilty to nurturing , but passive ? Maybe when I'm asleep.

Aggressive and domineering are definitely not traits to associate with gender.
Where do these false gender stereotypes come from? The media?
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:22 AM   #96
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Where do these false gender stereotypes come from? The media?
Religion?
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:25 AM   #97
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Can we get over the massive generalizations! Please?

They really don't help further any argument.

Sorry! rant off.

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Old 10-20-2009, 10:55 AM   #98
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Can we get over the massive generalizations! Please?

They really don't help further any argument.

Sorry! rant off.

Audrey
There you are furthering gender stereotypes by being accommodating and nurturing.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:13 PM   #99
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Sounded strident and bitchy to me.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:47 PM   #100
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Sounded strident and bitchy to me.
I think that was his point!

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