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Old 12-20-2007, 09:07 AM   #41
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Danny,
A classic way to turn a good post into a Political post. Most if not all of you items could have been said of the Clinton administration. So why didn't you just say

How Politicians change a light bulb!
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:11 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
I've been buying these the last year:

Homedepot 14

Homedepot 9

We been using them for years - the newer ones turn on right away and with more agreeable light - I just did a quick count - there are 49 on the property - even work outside when -20. The cost continues to go down - guess we have China to thank for that. I suppose if everyone starts buying them the cost should I hope continue to go down.

Cost me about $85 instead of about $25.

Might be a hardship for some Early Retires or ER To Be's to come up with a few extra sawbucks, but from what I've read on the forum, would be surprised if anyone is hurting that badly here.

We have drop offs here at stores and city recycling centers for old bulbs - not a big deal to save it and remember to take it with you the next trip - same place we take batteries...

So sometimes you replace a 50 cent bulb with a $1.75 one that isn't used very much. I heard that there will still be old style bulbs but will be 30% more efficient, so there will be a choice. If one has an anti-authority complex or feels strongly enough about being forced to do this, they can always stockpile the old bulbs and factor in how long they expect to live, then after they drop dead and the lights go out the wife can go to the store after the funeral and get the more modern bulbs.

And now for some incandescent light bulb jokes:

How the Bush Administration Changes a Light Bulb
How many members of the Bush administration does it take to change a light bulb?
1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed;
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed;
3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb;
4. One to arrange the invasion of a country rumored to have a secret stockpile of light bulbs;
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for the new light bulb;
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a step ladder under the banner: Light Bulb Change Accomplished;
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark;
8. One to viciously smear #7;
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along;
10. And finally one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.


.
Must EVERY thread be turned into a political one?
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:19 AM   #43
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BTW, here is the actual law.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:20 AM   #44
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I have noticed that the light output falls off with use for CFLs, so I have been rotating out some bulbs from areas like the kitchen when I notice dimming. Maybe they will eventually end up in the closets and furnace room.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:20 AM   #45
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Does this include the timer you plug into your outlet with a clockface that rotates and clicks a peg to turn on, and another to turn off? I was just going to set up a timer tonight on a CFL lamp for while I'm away. I don't think that's what they mean by "electronic" timer but it is plugged in so I don't know for sure.
The electric clock type timers are ok with the CFL's, they have a mechanical switch inside to control the power. You should be fine.

The electronic timers have solidstate components that switch the power and many require a connection to ground through the filament of a light bulb to work. The CFL's apparently don't look like a light bulb to the electronic timers so nothing happens when they switch on.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:34 AM   #46
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One thing that concerns me about the mercury in the CFL is that all these things seem to be made in China and so far they haven't impressed me with their concern for the environment or the health of their workers with respect to pollution. Let's hope not too many workers suffer from the effects of mercury poisoning just so we can save some energy.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:45 AM   #47
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About the cost of CFL's...the cost will keep dropping as more and more people use them. So the comparison to the old style light bulbs will slowly become less of a problem. Also, LED lights are coming along as well...they are energy efficient and last longer than CFL's, I believe. The cost of those is high right now, but they may be the next type of light bulb to take over the market once the price drops as usage increases. Also, I don't think they have any problem with the mercury.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:58 AM   #48
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Has anyone else noticed that CFL's don't actually last as long as everyone says they do? I put some in about 18 months ago and I've already replaced a couple.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:01 AM   #49
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I was at Costco yesterday and they had 10 packs of 60-watt-equivalent twisties for $1.49 after PG&E instant rebates taken at the register. Most of the other CFL's were three packs of indoor floods or six packs of any other kind of bulb for $3.49, including the little tiny ones and the ones with a full bulb around it that can be used in lamps that have a shade that clips to the bulb.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:07 AM   #50
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Has anyone else noticed that CFL's don't actually last as long as everyone says they do? I put some in about 18 months ago and I've already replaced a couple.
Hasn't been my experience...at least so far. I converted the entire house (with a few exceptions) to CFL's in November of 2005 and haven't had any failures.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:16 AM   #51
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I've been using CFL's for over ten years. Two of the original ones (with the long tubes sticking out of them) blew after about 6-7 years but I had them out in the garage where it was 120 degrees in the summer and 30 in the winter - well outside their operating range. I've had one regular twisty that hummed a little so I put it in an outside fixture. One flood that I bought recently didnt want to 'start' unless I tapped it, so it had a manufacturing issue.

I've had a heck of a lot of incandescent bulbs blow the first time I turned them on, or have the "jingle of death" when I took them out of the box.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:20 AM   #52
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Put CFL's in the new house in 2005. One of the 12 outdoor floods failed within 6 months, less than 50 hours of use. Replacement has been fine.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:42 AM   #53
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The electric clock type timers are ok with the CFL's, they have a mechanical switch inside to control the power. You should be fine.

The electronic timers have solidstate components that switch the power and many require a connection to ground through the filament of a light bulb to work. The CFL's apparently don't look like a light bulb to the electronic timers so nothing happens when they switch on.
Thanks, that's what I was guessing but it's good to know for sure since that CFL will be on a timer for the next 5 weeks!
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:52 AM   #54
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Mythbusters found this result: The startup energy for a CFL is negligible.
I think their conclusion is correct, but (as usual), their methodology is very questionable. They used fancy high tech equipment that looks impressive on TV to measure the instantaneous changes in current. What they needed to do, for a true cost comparison, is to use a standard electric company power meter. It mostly likely responds to those transients a bit differently.

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The mercury argument is another red herring.
Well, I googled a bit and it does seem that the health risks from dropping a single bulb are pretty minimal - so I agree there. But the overall mercury argument is not a red herring. It is great that a CFL in a high use socket will more than offset the mercury generated from the coal plant, and hopefully we get really good compliance in the recycling, which will contain the mercury. But I'm still concerned that a mandate means we process more mercury to put a bulb in a closet, which may never be offset.

Here's a mandate I could accept:
A new building code. Something like, say, 80% of the lumens provided by 'high use' sockets (would need definition, but would exclude closets, attics and such) must be a minimum of XX% efficiency. That would at least target the right areas, and leave some flexibility.

And as long as we are talking mandates - how about putting those things in packaging that doesn't make me feel like I'm likely to break two of them trying to get one out? What kind of cruel joke is that anyway? Maybe they should look to the egg industry for some packaging tips. Boy scouts will need to go to little old ladies houses to help them open their light bulb package.


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Originally Posted by UncleHoney View Post
The electric clock type timers are ok with the CFL's, they have a mechanical switch inside to control the power. You should be fine.

The electronic timers have solidstate components that switch the power and many require a connection to ground through the filament of a light bulb to work. The CFL's apparently don't look like a light bulb to the electronic timers so nothing happens when they switch on.
Correct. I had this problem with the electronic timer on my porch lights. I got around it by replacing one of the lights with a low wattage standard bulb. That provided the return path for the electronic timer. But an electronic timer on a single bulb would be a problem.

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Has anyone else noticed that CFL's don't actually last as long as everyone says they do? I put some in about 18 months ago and I've already replaced a couple.
I've had some blow out in weeks or months, but most of them have lasted years. The original old clunky, flicker-y, bad color ones on my porch running every day for a decade or more, subject to hot and cold, plus a few of the newer ones running for a few years.

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I was at Costco yesterday and they had 10 packs of 60-watt-equivalent twisties for $1.49 after PG&E instant rebates taken at the register.
Of course, you paid for the instant rebate. There is no free lunch, there is a hidden cost. It's not a 'bargain', it is an incentive. It actually increases the overall cost of the CFLs.

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Old 12-20-2007, 10:57 AM   #55
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Also, LED lights are coming along as well...they are energy efficient and last longer than CFL's, I believe. The cost of those is high right now, but they may be the next type of light bulb to take over the market once the price drops as usage increases. Also, I don't think they have any problem with the mercury.
The LEDs do last a long time, but at present they don't have quite the efficiency of a florescent bulb (hard to believe, but true.) In fact, the newer tube-style florescent bulbs are considerably more efficient than CFLs.

From a previous CFL thread: ( http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/cfls-30866-2.html

"On a note related to CFLs: I was surprised to learn that CFLs are much more energy efficient than LEDs. Present generation LEDs available for home lighting give approx 20 lumens/watt, a CFL gives 45-60 lumens per watt. Want to save the earth? Replace your fixtures: the frumpy T-8 4' tubular fluorescents give 85-95 lumens/watt. For comparison, a 100W incandescent bulb gives 17 lumens/watt.

I'm sure LED-based lighting will improve, but right now it costs much more than CFLs, is less energy efficient, and the light quality (color rendering) is worse. At least at present the LED-based lights seem to be a good bet only as long-lasting energy-efficient replacements for incandescent/halogen lights in highly directional applications."
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:03 AM   #56
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I have had CFLs in all my hard to get to and high use applications for years. Since they do dim with time I move the high use bulbs to low use areas after they dim enough to be aggravating. This is allowing me to slowly replace even low use bulbs. I don't get all the savings since I'm putting higher wattage (but dimmed) CFLs in places I could get by with low wattage CFLs but they are still less than 1/2 the wattage of the ILB. I always save the used but still good ILB, wasn't sure why till the new law. I figure they will be worth a fortune after they are outlawed. :-) Should give retirement income a bump.

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Old 12-20-2007, 11:27 AM   #57
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Did you see the news about the town that replaced their outdoor lights with LED's. Squirrels destroyed them. Seems like there was enough power in the older lines to keep the squirrels from gnawing on the lines. Not so in the low powered LEDs. They just chewed through the DC lines and destroyed the strings.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:06 PM   #58
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By the way, the usage element is a red herring. If you dont use the CFL often, it'll last practically forever, and its aggregate usage and savings vs an incandescent bulb in that 8-20 years will be identical to a high use bulb in a shorter time period..

But... I have some incandescents in my house that are over 20 years old... they were there when I bought the house and they are still going... they are 'nude' ones over the mirror in the half bath, which I use every day when at home...

I don't think that a CFL would be much better..
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:16 PM   #59
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...........................

Of course, you paid for the instant rebate. There is no free lunch, there is a hidden cost. It's not a 'bargain', it is an incentive. It actually increases the overall cost of the CFLs.

-ERD50

Oh great Bunny. Now look what you did!
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:32 PM   #60
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The mercury argument is another red herring. There is roughly 100 times more mercury in a household themometer as in a CFL. So if you break a couple of themometer in your life you've add as much mercury as a lifetime supply of CFLs. (It isn't exactly a apples to apples comparison, but the bottom line is the mercury in CFL is small enough they aren't a health hazard)

I have not replaced all the CFL in my house but as bulbs burn out I do.
When I was about 12 I had a small bottle of mercury. I used to roll balls of it around in my hand. Is that why I suffer from CRS today?
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