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Old 12-20-2007, 02:53 PM   #61
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I used to roll balls of it around in my hand.
I was about to post the same thing.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:15 PM   #62
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But... I have some incandescents in my house that are over 20 years old... they were there when I bought the house and they are still going... they are 'nude' ones over the mirror in the half bath, which I use every day when at home...

I don't think that a CFL would be much better..
If you use it every day? Really? You'd be using 75% less electricity for every minute of use had you replaced those with CFL's. Replace them now and you'll knock 75% off for the next 20 years or more.

If you move, take them with you like I did!
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:21 PM   #63
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Oh great Bunny. Now look what you did!
Yeah, I know. I quit trying to negotiate my way through the logic of users who have their mind made up and arent interested in any facts that dont suit the predetermined answer.

Its just wrong for the government to try to press people to do the right thing, cfl's are probably made with tiny tracking devices in them that watch our every move, they're preloaded with a tiny spatial vortex that holds 50 pounds of highly radioactive toxins designed to spray down any hapless human within 5 miles upon breakage, etc.

But...the good news is that Windows had fewer exploits in 2007 than OS X.

Mac versus Windows vulnerability stats for 2007 | Zero Day | ZDNet.com
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:23 PM   #64
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most chinese compact cfl's are very poor. not only do they draw way more electricity than stated but the lumens output falls short. lamp life on many is crap.

the best we found are ge,sylvania and philips for the majors, tcp ,greenlite ,maxlite on the non majors
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:39 PM   #65
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Yeah, I know. I quit trying to negotiate my way through the logic of users who have their mind made up and arent interested in any facts that dont suit the predetermined answer.
I'm not against learning. I'm glad to know that the startup power draw of CFLs is much lower than I thought. That changes some of my objections.

I still think there are too many installations where CFLs don't work well, like in cold, with timers, dimmers, etc. As I said in another thread, I've got two wall sconces I'd love to put CFLs in but they just don't work. I'm going to give it another try next week.

So I don't think they should ban the sale of the old bulbs. I wouldn't object to a "guzzler tax" on them. That would bring the CFL initial cost more in line.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:49 PM   #66
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But...the good news is that Windows had fewer exploits in 2007 than OS X.

Mac versus Windows vulnerability stats for 2007 | Zero Day | ZDNet.com
All Apple fans to their battle stations!!
Can we talk about something non-confrontational--like organic milk, or maybe abortion?
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #67
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If you use it every day? Really? You'd be using 75% less electricity for every minute of use had you replaced those with CFL's. Replace them now and you'll knock 75% off for the next 20 years or more.

If you move, take them with you like I did!

Actually.. yes, it is my main 'rest room'... did a quick calc and it appears that they are in the 2,500 to 3,000 hour of use range.... I don't even know their wattage... maybe 40... times 4 lights

So a CFL would last me up to 80 years.... but I doubt they would go that long..


Now I bet all 4 go out in the next week....
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:12 PM   #68
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I was about to post the same thing.
Me, too. This is all starting to make sense........
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:36 PM   #69
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Uh oh, I think I used to play with mercury when I was a kid too.

Maybe mercury leads to early retirement?
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:51 PM   #70
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I started using CFL's in the late 90's. My experience has been that about half have worked great and about half have been faulty (failed after a few months, annoying flickering, etc). I tend to have earlier bulbs, and have less experience with newer products. The "good ones" from ten years ago are still doing their job. The bad ones were replaced long ago.

The key to using less electricity is not through forced CFL's. This is a feel good cop-out approach that will have limited, if any, broad-based benefit. It is likely to have a negative benefit. The key to using less energy is to, well, use less energy. Turn it off when it's not in use. It really is that simple.

My electricity usage is about 1/10 of the average American (1/100 of a certain ex vice president). Same with my lighting costs. There is nothing special about the way I live. While I live alone, most of my electricity is from "base usage" (e.g., refrigerator) that is mostly invariant of the number of occupants in a house. My low usage has little to do with CFL's. It has everything to do with turning off and/or unplugging devices that are not in use. You don't need laws to do this.

CFL's should not be used in environments where they are on for less than a few minutes (e.g., 15 minutes). This can shorten their lifespan to that of incandescents. This greatly increases their cost and their environmental impact. Now, I suppose CFL's are the way to go for people who like to leave on all the lights in their house. They'll save a little electricity over incandescents (and likely feel smug and self-righteous about it), although overall, they will not be very energy efficient. In fact, they may be less efficient because they'll be more likely to leave the lights on. To really save, you need to change the paradigm. That paradigm is to get people to turn off lights and other devices that are not in use. In this paradigm, a mix of CFL's and incandescents is the best approach. CFL's for the living room and other long-term areas, incandescents for those spots that get little or short-term use.

The two approaches are: 1) take steps to reduce household electricity consumption by 10-20% through mandated CFL's; 2) take steps to reduce household electricity consumption by 70-90% through education, awareness, and other means (electric rates).

The CFL versus coal plant argument is a red herring. First, all electricity doesn't come from coal (and perhaps less in the future). Second, coal powered plants are being mandated to significantly reduce their mercury and other emissions over the next 10-20 years (granted, CFL manufacturers are also reducing mercury content). The government can easily regulate these plants. The government cannot easily regulate what individuals do with CFL's.
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:24 PM   #71
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Oh....Thank God......

Another decision that the government has made FOR ME as I'm way too stupid to ever figure this kinda thing out for myself.....
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:32 PM   #72
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All Apple fans to their battle stations!!
Can we talk about something non-confrontational--like organic milk, or maybe abortion?
Oh, CFB has thrown out a few of those taunts in the past few days.

I'd bite if it was really a battlefield I was coming to, even an unlevel one. But it's just a brick wall, so no point really. If CFB wants to base all his future OS decisions on the dot-0 release of OSX (6 years and 5 revs ago), he can go right ahead. I suspect most other people are more computer savvy and open-minded than that.

Speaking of milk.... I'm getting my wife a cheese-making kit and book for the holidays. Turns out that much of the milk in the stores may actually be ultra-pasteurized, but it isn't labeled as such (technically, it exceeds the limits, so no need to identify it). Turns out UP can be detrimental to the cheese-making process - I may have to get some of that local Yuppie 'organic' milk after all.

-ERD50
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:29 PM   #73
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PS - this isn't quite as much fun to say, now that CFB isn't around, but since the last time I mentioned it, another few months have been tacked on to the years that Mac users have been free of this cr@p!
So what you're saying is that it isnt fun anymore?

I just hope that people understand that paying extra for a different computer doesnt make it invulnerable.

Anyone want to talk about politics?
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:50 PM   #74
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I want to talk about playing with mercury as a kid. I also did that and have casually wondered about effects.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:55 PM   #75
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Add me to the list of those who played with liquid mercury as a kid. It does make you wonder how we all lived beyond age 40...
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:11 PM   #76
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I want to talk about playing with mercury as a kid. I also did that and have casually wondered about effects.
And model airplane glue. And hexachlorophene. And probably a zillion other things. I always wondered if I would have been even smarter if I hadn't been exposed to all that stuff. Nah, not possible.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:16 PM   #77
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Now what the hell am I going to put in my Lava Lamp?

And bye-bye Easy Bake Ovens!
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:06 AM   #78
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I do not have a problem with moving toward practices that will save energy.

I believe one of the main reasons people use incandescent bulbs today is because the cost of the bulb is cheaper than the alternative. That may change if production scales up.

But, absolute rules often have holes in them (unintended consequences). The old incandescent light will still have its place in certain applications.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:29 AM   #79
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You could make a silver dime shine and slippery with that mercury and then carry it around massaging with your fingers it all day! We really knew how to have fun.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:00 AM   #80
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Must EVERY thread be turned into a political one?
I think you made some political posts in this thread. What's your definition of political. Do I have to conform to the way you or Rustic want things done. Why can't you just let it go and ignore it or put me on ignore. What are you afraid of

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Danny,
A classic way to turn a good post into a Political post. Most if not all of you items could have been said of the Clinton administration. So why didn't you just say

How Politicians change a light bulb!
Thanks for the compliment! I don't see how they would make sense or be funny for the Clinton Administration though.

This thread has a political/government undercurrent to it from the first post. I think you even made a post about not liking the government telling you what to do. So there is politics in this thread. You just don't like me mentioning the current administration in some jokes. Surely your skin's thick enough to handle minor stuff liike that. You can ignore it or ignore me, but I'm not going to censor myself to keep you happy.
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