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Old 12-28-2007, 10:35 PM   #21
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So the Pakistanis go ape $hit and riot all around their country . Maybe they should find the torches ala Frankenstein the Movie and head for the western part of pakistan and hunt down al zwahiri and bin laden and the real animals that decided to have Butto killed.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:00 AM   #22
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Could someone explain to me why it matters whether she died from gunshot wounds, bomb blast, or hitting her head due to bomb blast or gunshots?
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:17 AM   #23
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Could someone explain to me why it matters whether she died from gunshot wounds, bomb blast, or hitting her head due to bomb blast or gunshots?
I think it somehow has to do with creditability and covering something up. Of course we all know G. Bush is behind it.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:01 AM   #24
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Could someone explain to me why it matters whether she died from gunshot wounds, bomb blast, or hitting her head due to bomb blast or gunshots?
Gunshots and bomb blast indicate a martyrs death. Withstanding bullet wounds and a bomb blast, but receiving the fatal blow in your own doing by trying to fall back into the limo but nailing your head on a latch denies you a martyrs death. In the Islamic world, there isn't anything more honorable and noble than a martyrs death.

The story has been changed 3 times so quickly, that I don't know who to believe. She had a way of rallying people to her, but she was unable to consistently lead the people. Regardless, I did like her and it's sad news.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:18 AM   #25
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The BBC had a discussion with one of her aides who said she clearly had a gunshot wound in her left skull with massive bleeding. She said there was blood all over the car, all over everyone's clothes. A simple skull fracture doesn't give you lots of external bleeding. And honestly, it would take a huge impact to fracture your skull that badly. The skull fracture story is utter garbage.

I think Pavo, above, is on to something. It would make sense that the government is trying to deny her as a martyr.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:19 AM   #26
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I think Pavo, above, is on to something. It would make sense that the government is trying to deny her as a martyr.
Is the government trying to deny her martyr status so that she doesn't get the virgins in the afterlife?
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:53 AM   #27
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Is the government trying to deny her martyr status so that she doesn't get the virgins in the afterlife?
LOL, I don't think that's the case. Good, quick thinking...

I'm not too familiar with her background, but from what I do know is that the people of Pakiston loved her. She was a member of the People's Party in Pakistan - the people loved her, and would rally around her. From my understanding, she didn't seem like the absolute best leader once in power, but she had Obama-like/John Paul II-like charisma among her supporters.

The government did give approval on an exhumation of the body recently, and this has shifted the focus so much from what it was a couple of days ago - it went from an assassination, death of a former leader and prominant figure in the region which created looting and rioting to a, 'hold on a second. we have three stories here now.' Low, but great tactic by the Pakiston government, even if it is fabricated. They've averted attention to an investigation, which might calm some boiling blood.

I'm sure her enemies (she had plenty as much of her family was murdered) don't want her to go down in the books as a martyr.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:05 PM   #28
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Allah be praised! (I work in the oil patch and energy is about 10% of my portfolio. Sorry about that. )
Ha! I don't work in the oil patch (or anywhere else), but energy in various forms is 1/3 of my net worth.

However, I do look for some near-term weakness in crude quotes.

Also, I agree with A85 above. Have you ever heard of anyone who died immediately upon bumping her head?


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Old 12-29-2007, 12:11 PM   #29
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She was killed Thursday. On TV I saw a crowd "carrying" her casket through the streets Friday and she was buried Friday. When was an autopsy done? Surley there will be much controversy over this senseless death. Thursday she was killed by two gun shot wounds. Then she was killed by shrapnel from the blast. Friday she bumped her head. Conspiracy controversy brewing in Pakistan?

Quote:ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Benazir Bhutto died from a skull fracture suffered when her head slammed against her car during a suicide attack—not from bullet wounds, the government said Friday.

http://www.breitbart.com/artic....le=1
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:55 PM   #30
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LOL, I don't think that's the case. Good, quick thinking...

I'm not too familiar with her background, but from what I do know is that the people of Pakiston loved her. She was a member of the People's Party in Pakistan - the people loved her, and would rally around her. From my understanding, she didn't seem like the absolute best leader once in power, but she had Obama-like/John Paul II-like charisma among her supporters.

The government did give approval on an exhumation of the body recently, and this has shifted the focus so much from what it was a couple of days ago - it went from an assassination, death of a former leader and prominant figure in the region which created looting and rioting to a, 'hold on a second. we have three stories here now.' Low, but great tactic by the Pakiston government, even if it is fabricated. They've averted attention to an investigation, which might calm some boiling blood.

I'm sure her enemies (she had plenty as much of her family was murdered) don't want her to go down in the books as a martyr.
I think it's debatable to state the "people loved her". certainly a segment
of the population did. Other segments did not, both crazy and moderate.
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:15 PM   #31
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I think it's debatable to state the "people loved her". certainly a segment
of the population did. Other segments did not, both crazy and moderate.
I agree to a large segment she was a corrupt kleptocrat much like her husband and her father who was excecuted largely on corruption accusations. Obviously she is hero to many in Pakistan.

I have no idea where the truth is (probably some combination but who knows). What I am pretty confident is that she really believed in democracy (8 years at Harvard and Oxford studying government would do that I think!). I think her most important contribution was to show that Muslim woman could be elected and rule a Muslim country albeit for a short time.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:04 AM   #32
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This morning's news: her son and husband are planning to take her place and run in the elections on January 8.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:25 AM   #33
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For MickeyD- her husband denied consent for the autopsy. In the USA, the medical examiner or coroner would have the authority to order an autopsy, even though a family member objected, but in Pakistan, who knows?

She died of a gunshot wound(or two) to the head and for some reason the Pakistani authorities want it recorded otherwise. As someone else pointed out, if she died because of an accident, then she won't go down in their history as a martyr, whereas she would if she had been assassinated.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:02 PM   #34
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If I may veer slightly off tangent, but I'm just amazed how countries with supposedly male-dominated, feudal cultures like India, Pakistan, Israel, the Philippines, Argentina, and others have managed to elect women leaders for years now, while we here in the US have yet to do so. If there is one accomplishment that Benazir Bhutto has achieved in her life, it is the fact that she became Prime Minister at all in a Muslim nation. Whatever other faults she may have had, she deserves admiration for her bravery in returning to Pakistan and contesting the election.
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:40 AM   #35
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If I may veer slightly off tangent, but I'm just amazed how countries with supposedly male-dominated, feudal cultures like India, Pakistan, Israel, the Philippines, Argentina, and others have managed to elect women leaders for years now, while we here in the US have yet to do so. If there is one accomplishment that Benazir Bhutto has achieved in her life, it is the fact that she became Prime Minister at all in a Muslim nation. Whatever other faults she may have had, she deserves admiration for her bravery in returning to Pakistan and contesting the election.
Could part of the reason be that some of the women were succeeding a father or husband? (Like Hillary?) Are there women elected who were not succeeding a father or husband? I can only think of Golda Miere in Israel.
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:15 PM   #36
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Could someone explain to me why it matters whether she died from gunshot wounds, bomb blast, or hitting her head due to bomb blast or gunshots?
If she died because she was startled by a bomb blast, slipped, and hit her head, then it was an accident not an assassination. Terribly regrettable and all that, but nobody's fault, no need for an investigation, no reason to refer to her as a martyr, and no reason for her supporters to get upset and blame people.

Pity about the video evidence, but whatever.
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:19 PM   #37
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If she died because she was startled by a bomb blast, slipped, and hit her head, then it was an accident not an assassination. Terribly regrettable and all that, but nobody's fault, no need for an investigation, no reason to refer to her as a martyr, and no reason for her supporters to get upset and blame people.

Pity about the video evidence, but whatever.
uh, yeah, an accident caused by a bomb...intended to kill her...
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:31 PM   #38
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Well, yes, but it didn't kill her, so it doesn't count (like the bomb blast that didn't kill her on the day she returned to Pakistan). At least, I think that's how the "logic" goes - if she slipped, fell, and hit her head because she heard a bomb blast, then her death wouldn't count as murder but as accident, such a shame and all that but these things happen. Like I said - pity about the video evidence showing otherwise, but these little inconveniences can just be handwaved away, I suppose.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:30 PM   #39
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Could part of the reason be that some of the women were succeeding a father or husband? (Like Hillary?) Are there women elected who were not succeeding a father or husband? I can only think of Golda Miere in Israel.
Mary Robinson was elected President of Ireland in 1990 and served one term before becoming UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Áras an Uachtaráin - Mary Robinson

Mary McAleese is the current President of Ireland, having been first elected in 1997 and reelected in 2004.

Áras an Uachtaráin - Biographies

So......Ireland has had female elected heads of state continuously for over 17 years......the most successful period in the country's recent history.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:32 PM   #40
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If she died because she was startled by a bomb blast, slipped, and hit her head, then it was an accident not an assassination. Terribly regrettable and all that, but nobody's fault, no need for an investigation, no reason to refer to her as a martyr, and no reason for her supporters to get upset and blame people.

Pity about the video evidence, but whatever.
I guess root cause analysis isn't popular in those circles....
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