Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2014, 01:34 PM   #21
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,038
I did not realize that the discussion pertained exclusively to commercial DVDs. The DVDs I ripped into iTunes contained videos of family events and vacations. I didn't have to deal with copy protection. And for that, Handbrake worked just fine.
__________________

__________________
FIREd is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-02-2014, 01:39 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating any position.

....

What makes this discussion different is not fair use, it is the fact that if a content owner or distributor puts copy protection on the media, even if you do have the established right to copy under fair use (cd to tape, for example) it is still a criminal act to defeat the copy protection.
I understand that, but I'd still be interested in some legal input.

Since I can't see that my copying of the DVD to my computer, merely for convenience and flexibility in any way 'harms' the copyright holder, on what basis would any such law be legally enforceable? Does the law really 'exist', if there can be no harm? I'm making the assumption that the copyright holder would have to show they were harmed, this is where I'm curious about the legalities.

So let's say Sony wanted to make a test case out of someone. What would they say to the court? Wouldn't Sony have to show they were harmed in some way? If there is no harm to them, isn't it just a nuisance suit that would be thrown out (and maybe having Sony pay fines/costs)? So if I technically violate a law in such a way that no harm is done, and if proof that harm was done is essential to a suit, then the law seems to fall apart on itself? But maybe my legal understanding is incorrect.

Reminds me of the 'furniture tag police' comedy skits (yes, I know, the consumer can remove the tag).

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 02:16 PM   #23
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

Since I can't see that my copying of the DVD to my computer, merely for convenience and flexibility in any way 'harms' the copyright holder, on what basis would any such law be legally enforceable? Does the law really 'exist', if there can be no harm? I'm making the assumption that the copyright holder would have to show they were harmed, this is where I'm curious about the legalities.
As long as the DMCA is in force and prohibits breaking copy protection, how will this ever be tested?
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 03:45 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
As long as the DMCA is in force and prohibits breaking copy protection, how will this ever be tested?
I guess I see it as all part of the same issue. If I am breaking the law by using a tool that breaks the copy protection, but I am only making copies for my own use, am I doing the copyright holder any harm? And if I'm not doing them harm, can they make a court case out of it?

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 04:00 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I guess I see it as all part of the same issue. If I am breaking the law by using a tool that breaks the copy protection, but I am only making copies for my own use, am I doing the copyright holder any harm? And if I'm not doing them harm, can they make a court case out of it?

-ERD50
The only people who were ever caught violating music copyrights were using file sharing websites. It's virtually impossible to get caught if you're doing it at home. It's a different story if you're providing illegal content on a file sharing website, this is where you get into trouble. I always had a problem w/companies like Sony that state don't copy our material, it's illegal; but I have this Sony CD/DVD machine that will make the illegal copies of our material.
__________________
Dimsumkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 07:15 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,422
Millions of people have ripped DVDs and Blu Rays.

They're not going to know, unless they somehow get your hard drive and compare to your disc collection.

Only way they would know is if you file-share it. They hire consultants to find the IP address of people sharing copyright content and they will try to make examples of some egregious offenders.

They come up with some kind of trumped figures for economic damages in those cases.

But even then, the pirating is so widespread that they can only hope to target a small percentage, again to try to grab headlines and make examples out of them.

I've ripped maybe one or two DVDs, just to play around with it. I don't bother to load movies on my mobile devices. I did used to have a couple, thinking I'd watch them on flights or on vacations. Never did, so deleted them.

More useful would be transferring recordings from my DVR to my devices but they made that tough. And any law that says you have no right to place-shift or device-shift is bankrupt and I will not have the slightest sense of guilt in doing it.

That said, it's practically impossible to copy the DVR recordings outside of what they allow (most TV shows can be downloaded from my Tivo to my iPad's Tivo app but most premium shows from HBO and Showtime can't be but I'm okay with that because they provide apps. that let me stream any of their shows, just a hassle to switch apps for different shows).

I also have a cheap Slingbox imitation that lets me stream shows from my DVR by capturing the component video (analog output) instead of the digital HDMI output. In that case, I can capture any content on my DVR including premium content.

I have absolutely no guilt about doing this. I pay good money for premium channels. Now when I cut the cord, I won't be able to do this but until then, I'm paying for the content.

Or if I buy box sets, I won't have any moral issue ripping them to put on my mobile devices, if that turns out to be a more convenient way to view these expensive discs.

The networks would like you to pay for the subscription, pay for the box sets and pay for digital downloads for the mobile devices. That has nothing to do with morality or protecting the artists. It's about maximizing revenues.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 11:23 AM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,001
This guy has decided to test the system re:copyright violations. Apparently, he figured no rules apply to him starting w/failing to yield to an ambulance. I caught this story on CBS local news last night and they mentioned he had many current still at the theaters hits on DVD ready for sale.

Traffic stop leads to bootleg DVD bust - chicagotribune.com
__________________
Dimsumkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 11:41 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
The networks would like you to pay for the subscription, pay for the box sets and pay for digital downloads for the mobile devices. That has nothing to do with morality or protecting the artists. It's about maximizing revenues.
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that it's about anything other than "maximizing revenues" for the industry. If any industry feels threatened with a revenue decline of 50% (like music), they would also seek to protect/maximize revenue!

However, morality and protecting artists are two different things. Given how things played out for the music industry, where artists and the music industry have clearly been financially harmed, it's no surprise at all the other content industries (TV, movies, DVDs, etc.) are doing everything they can to defend their status quo.

The battle between physical books and eBooks is another facet...
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 6a00d83451b36c69e2014e5f5d0845970c-500wi.jpeg (27.7 KB, 1 views)
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 12:54 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,422
Is there evidence that TV and movies are seeing declines in sales, revenues, profits?

There certainly was for the music business even back in the days of Napster.
__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:06 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
Is there evidence that TV and movies are seeing declines in sales, revenues, profits? They're understandably trying to be proactive and avoid the same fate as music. If they wait for a decline, it'll probably be too late...

There certainly was for the music business even back in the days of Napster. Not sure what your point is here. Many say Napster was the main catalyst that began the decline for the music industry. Napster made it's debut in 1999, look at the chart above with that year in mind.
__________________
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 02:02 PM   #31
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,445
Interesting OpEd in the NY Times this morning http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/op...f=opinion&_r=0
A snippet
Quote:
The complex and intricate rules of copyright law increasingly become a trap for the unwary, now that computers automatically make copies (often just temporarily) of all the data they process, from DVDs to MP3s to web pages. (A reader viewing this letter on nytimes.com is making a reproduction of this copyrighted work.)

Fair use is, among other things, an essential safety valve that prevents the law from making infringers of us all.
The last line is a view I'd not seen expressed 'til now and coincides with some of the views in this thread. Food for thought...
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 06:34 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,422
The mere act of ripping DVDs does not threaten sales or the business model.

It's sharing that causes people to not go to the movies, stop subscribing to cable, etc.

These businesses are not suffering. There is cord-cutting momentum and subscriber churn but Comcast and others are in good shape, buying both content and other cable companies.

Pirating movies is much harder because of the size of the files involved. Plus, movies and TVs are priced better. You can often get Blu-Rays of movies under $10 a year or so after initial release to video.

I got the first 4 seasons of Mad Men on Blu Ray for less than $9 each.

Record companies charge $15 or more for CDs, which would take maybe a couple of minutes to download?

Big difference.
__________________

__________________
explanade is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
itunes help? simple girl Other topics 8 06-22-2008 10:01 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.