"BIG 4-0"BIG 5-0"huh?

[laurence]

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Originally Posted by razztazz You watch too much TV. Didn't read what I said. Just spoutin what the Boss tells you to. Too bad

O.K., so that sentence didn't even make sense, hope you have a better day tomorrow!

[wabmester]

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Originally Posted by Laurence Hmmm, well, weight control is directly related to health, and exercise is a key ingredient of weight control, and I believe there have been numerous studies that seniors are healthier when they exercise.* Are you disputing causality?

Weight control is about burning the same number of calories that you consume. * I know plenty of overzealous athletes with serious knee problems, and there's no question that over-exertion can kill you if you have underlying health issues (sometimes hidden).

It does turn out that exercise has benefits over just burning calories, though. * Some of them are pretty subtle, and some of them you only get with vigorous exercise.

FWIW, I'm starting a new experiment on myself that starts this week. * I normally do about 30 minutes a day of moderate exercise. * I just signed up with a trainer, and we'll test my HDL levels and VO2max next week. * Then 12 weeks of more vigorous exercise, and then we'll retest HDL and VO2max at the end. * *Should be interesting....

[Mwsinron]

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Originally Posted by razztazz That's right. Exercise only has minor influence around the fringes.* people get fooled or fool themselves into thinking their exeise is keeping them healthy but 90% of the time it's the fact they are naturally healthy and that allows them to keep up all the exercise.

I trust you are joking?

[razztazz]

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Weight control is about burning the same number of calories that you consume. I

Not entirely. I wate 1500-200 calories every day for 29 yrs worked out 1-2 hour every day for 20 yrs., GAined weight. Blew out a knew exercising and developed a heart problem... went on the Atkins diet and lost 30 pounds in 5 months on minimum of 2000 cals per day and felt better than I had at least 10 yrs. It's more than SIMPLY a calorie game at least for some.

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I trust you are joking?

Of course not. Do the study youself., But you wont because it's easier to believe what the TV man tells you to belive. Account to all the ill health cause by exercise. Disprove what I said. The TV man wont let you. Doesnt matter to me.

[Mwsinron]

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Originally Posted by razztazz Not entirely. I wate 1500-200 calories every day for 29 yrs worked out 1-2 hour every day for 20 yrs., GAined weight.* Blew out a knew exercising and developed a heart problem... went on the Atkins diet and lost 30 pounds in 5 months on* minimum of 2000 cals per day and felt better than I had at least 10 yrs. It's more than SIMPLY a calorie game at least for some. Of course not. Do the study youself., But you wont because it's easier to believe what the TV man tells you to belive. Account to all the ill health cause by exercise.* Disprove what I said. The TV man wont let you.* Doesnt matter to me.

I have. Since reducing my calorie intake,weight lifting and walking around 28 to 32 miles a week since March I have dropped 62 pounds. It isnt just a calorie game. I have more energy and stamina than any other time in my life. I dont disagree calorie intake is very import but exercise isnt something to be dismissed in my opinion.

[wabmester]

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Originally Posted by razztazz It's more than SIMPLY a calorie game at least for some.

Well, those calories you consume have to go someplace, right? There is some evidence that a high-protein diet increases thermogenesis, so a low-carb diet might be burning more calories as heat, but I don't know if that's been well established yet.

In any case, exercise will help burn calories. And if you build muscle, your baseline metabolism should increase as well. If you exercise hard, you'll grow more capillaries and improve your O2 utilization. Your HDL will increase. And your bones will probably get stronger too.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

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Originally Posted by wab Well, those calories you consume have to go someplace, right? There is some evidence that a high-protein diet increases thermogenesis, so a low-carb diet might be burning more calories as heat, but I don't know if that's been well established yet. In any case, exercise will help burn calories. And if you build muscle, your baseline metabolism should increase as well. If you exercise hard, you'll grow more capillaries and improve your O2 utilization. Your HDL will increase. And your bones will probably get stronger too.

Couple of points: it is about calories v. exercise as far as weight loss goes. But your basal metabolism drops with age, so its not a lifelong absolute number. Muscle mass increases your basal metabolism, so it really does make it easier to lose weight if your muscles are big. Even the old legend about losing weight faster if you exercise in that lower level of aerobic capacity has been discarded: while your body may shift from carbohydrate to fat burning, the two quickly re-equilibrate and in the end a calorie is a calorie (denser storage in fat than carbohydrates).

Atkins and such really do work at least short term, likely because the rules impose an easily identifiable and nutritionally poor source of calories making it easier to avoid them; also, the "ketosis" that the constant mild starvation induces tends to suppress appetite. However, the bottom line still seems to be weight loss regardless of how it is achieved, within healthy limits.

Hope this helps.

[ash]

My favorite description of why people are overweight came from Carlos Mencia:

"You're fat because you put more in this hole (points to mouth) than came out of this hole (points to butt)."

Life is way to short not to eat ice cream though.

[laurence]

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Originally Posted by razztazz Not entirely. I wate 1500-200 calories every day for 29 yrs worked out 1-2 hour every day for 20 yrs., GAined weight.* Blew out a knew exercising and developed a heart problem... went on the Atkins diet and lost 30 pounds in 5 months on* minimum of 2000 cals per day and felt better than I had at least 10 yrs. It's more than SIMPLY a calorie game at least for some. Of course not. Do the study youself., But you wont because it's easier to believe what the TV man tells you to belive. Account to all the ill health cause by exercise.* Disprove what I said. The TV man wont let you.* Doesnt matter to me.

Well, I'm going to try and decipher your post here. This cracks me up, more posters spouting acenctotal evidence and saying it blows away mountains of scientific evidence.

But if you only accept personal stories, yes I tried just diet, but was still 250 lbs, it wasn't until I began training for races that I dropped the weight. I don't eat a perfect diet, but as long as I get 3 hours of exercise in a week, I don't gain weight, and might lose a pound to boot!

...oh, gotta run, the all powerful T.V. man is beckoning, have to start my group think session.

[Sarah in SC]

Darn, I knew there was some reason I needed to get a TV, to get the messages about exercise not being worthwhile through my tin-foil hat....

FWIW, after being inspired by all of you healthy people, I started with a trainer a couple of months ago, 2x week, and started this month eating a higher protein diet (still with unlimited fruit/vegetables) directed by the trainer. I feel better, have more energy, and may just not need that monster knee brace at the end of it all if I can build up my legs. And Lawrence has inspired the first-ever "maybe we could try running" conversation in our 13-year marriage. Thanks for being such good influences on us!
Sarah

[laurence]

I have a history in my family of bad knees. I've never had a problem, but I use works treadmill for 3 runs a week to minimize impact and only do street running once a week. Even that is half trails. Between that and good shoes, I hope to make my knees last.

[califdreamer]

I used to run pretty regularly but now I stick to low impact stuff like the elliptical at the gym. I read an article recently (can't remember if it was a magazine or on internet) about people in their late 40s and 50s having to deal w/ hip replacements, etc. Years of extreme training, marathoning and all the rest take their toll after a few decades. Most benefits occur with a moderate level of exercise. Going over and above is for something other than fitness.

[razztazz]

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I have a history in my family of bad knees.

No, they chose to have bad knees. They should have exercised more. Then they would have had good knees

[laurence]

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Originally Posted by razztazz No, they chose to have bad knees. They should have exercised more. Then they would have had good knees

Not sure where you're coming from, but Earth is the blue one third from the sun.

[jclarksnakes]

....I ran a lot during my 21 years in the army. I was even pretty good at it but I grew to hate running. Now I like hiking and kayaking. We were paddling in the ocean this morning. It was hot but there was enough breeze to keep it bearable. We put ashore on the beach on Little Tybee Island and had several miles of beach all to ourselves for a long walk. That was our second paddle this week. We will probably go again monday. I think exercise is very important and that if you get enough of it you can eat just about anything you want. I am 5'7" and 157 (10 pounds overweight) which just proves that I am wrong or need to exercise more. I like eating too much to ever consider dieting. Life is good!

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Originally Posted by califdreamer I used to run pretty regularly but now I stick to low impact stuff like the elliptical at the gym.* I read an article recently (can't remember if it was a magazine or on internet) about people in their late 40s and 50s having to deal w/ hip replacements, etc.* Years of extreme training, marathoning and all the rest take their toll after a few decades.* Most benefits occur with a moderate level of exercise.* Going over and above is for something other than fitness.

califdreamer,
.....I work on an orthopedics floor in a hospital. We have a joint replacement program that brings in lots of patients from around the area. I still have not seen one that was an extreme athlete or a serious runner. The one thing I do notice about most of the knee and hip replacement patients is obesity. I would guess that 75% are more than 50 pounds over their ideal weight.
jc*

[califdreamer]

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Originally Posted by jclarksnakes I am 5'7" and 157 (10 pounds overweight) which just proves that I am wrong or need to exercise more. I like eating too much to ever consider dieting. Life is good!

Geez, 157 sounds trim to me.

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Originally Posted by jclarksnakes califdreamer, .....I work on an orthopedics floor in a hospital. We have a joint replacement program that brings in lots of patients from around the area. I still have not seen one that was an extreme athlete or a serious runner. The one thing I do notice about most of the knee and hip replacement patients is obesity. I would guess that 75% are more than 50 pounds over their ideal weight. jc*

I tried to find the article about this in the LA Times archive but couldn't come up with it.* I would certainly agree obesity would be a MUCH more frequent contributor to joint replacement needs than too much exercise.* I'm sure it's actually a very small percentage of people the article was referring to... a little media puffery no doubt.

[razztazz]

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still have not seen one that was an extreme athlete or a serious runner.

Thats because they are inherently healthier and less susceptible to deterioration which allows them to BE extreme athletes. The larger body (pun) usually stop the "extreme extercise" due to pain, aging, and the inevitable inability to keep doing it BUT usually long before they have to go right from the track to the hip replacement table. More exetrcise = more health has more than a little post hoc ergo propter hoc million to it.