Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Both US and Iraqi Casualties Decline
Old 10-20-2007, 09:03 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
Both US and Iraqi Casualties Decline

I'm sure everyone will be happy to read that the number of Americans and Iraqis killed in the violence there has shown another decrease. Since this hadn't made much of a splash in the evening news, I thought maybe some folks might be interested in the reported recent developments and trends. The Washington Post, a well recognized right-wing mouthpiece for the President, has noted the decrease in casualties in a recent editorial.

washingtonpost.com

To quote from the Post:
****************
"A congressional study and several news stories in September questioned reports by the U.S. military that casualties were down. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), challenging the testimony of Gen. David H. Petraeus, asserted that "civilian deaths have risen" during this year's surge of American forces.

A month later, there isn't much room for such debate, at least about the latest figures. In September, Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006, according to the Web site icasualties.org. The Iraqi Health Ministry and the Associated Press reported similar results."
***********************
I'm not a big believer that casualty numbers are a good metric for judging the state of progress in Iraq, but most people appear to believe that the body count is somehow significant in charting progress. I expect now these people will be full of kudos for our policies there.

What is especially noteworthy is that both US and Iraqi casualties are lower now than they were a year ago. Compared to a year ago, we have more Americans deployed (which some pundits said would only increase the number of targets available for extremists) and these troops are more exposed than a year ago-fewer are hunkered down in fortified strongholds, more are in the suburbs working directly with Iraqi security forces. Some believed that these two factors would have increased the number of Americans who were killed or wounded, but that has not happened. Instead, the numbers have decreased and the results on the ground have improved.

There's still a very long way to go--the Iraqi government is weak and not as effective as we would like, extremist elements of all stripes could launch a single simple but horrific attack tomorrow and kill hundreds. Nonetheless, as the daily news showers us with the obligatory 25 seconds of gore or the latest snippet intended to generate outrage or sell papers, it's important to see the forest for the trees, and to relish positive developments as we all (in the US and in Iraq) work to address the many remaining challenges.
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-20-2007, 09:39 PM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,108
Whether or not you think that the Bush administration is or is not wise or competent, fewer folks are getting killed in Iraq is good.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2007, 10:14 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 87
I hope this proves to be long term and not some seasonal relief.
__________________
ChemEng is offline   Reply With Quote
Both US and Iraqi Casualities Decline
Old 10-20-2007, 10:29 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 961
Both US and Iraqi Casualities Decline

It is good that there are fewer deaths.

But the fact still remains that it was the WRONG WAR at the WRONG TIME. Old George W's failed policies have resulted in over 3800 plus of OUR TROOPS killed, an estimated 25000 to 30000 of OUR TROOPS wounded and maimed and an estimated 500000 to 1000000 of the IRAQI PEOPLE killed, wounded and maimed.

ONE DEATH WAS ONE TOO MANY.

There was an article in SI.com by Dave Zirin about a pro basketball Etan Thomas (had major heart surgery) who wrote a poem on the war.
SI.com - Writers - The activist athlete (cont.) - Monday October 15, 2007 5:19PM

Here is Etan Thomas' poem

In front of 10,000 of his closest friends, (preceding his surgery)at an anti war rally Etan Thomas said of President Bush:

"If he says he's a Christian doesn't mean he follows Christ
Because he's the President doesn't mean that he's bright
Just means you need to research what his speech writer writes
But through methods of deception he made y'all think that he's right

You owe us
For every mother who will never see their son again
Every husband whose lives you've ruined
Who will never taste the sweet lips of their wife's kiss
Left with the stale bitterness of death to caress their reality
You've created whirlwinds of a widowed future
Causing pain and suffering to give birth to normality
Their blood is on your hands
I hope their pain haunts you while you're sleeping
Wakes you up at night with the cries of the lives you've destroyed
Visions of caskets should dance in your head
I hope your conscious shouts in your ears that our heroes deserved better
Rest in peace to the abundance of lives you've ceased
Mr. Commander and Chief
You owe them more
They put their trust in you
Riding in a ship that we all knew would sink
A medal of honor to put in their grave is a slap in the face
Human life is precious no matter what you think
And even after all that ...
You're still committed to continuing a winning-less battle
You don't know when to say when
You can't even admit that you made a mistake
So how can the healing possibly begin"

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, OUR FALLEN TROOPS, OUR VETERANS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE

WAGS
Lifetime Member of the DAV
Wags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2007, 10:51 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.

By the way what is an insurgent and what do they look like?

Someone tell me how we are fighting a war when we don't know who were fighting.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2007, 10:55 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bright eyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
Good news the numbers are going down...

i didn't know the wpost was considered a right wing mouthpiece for the prez? i thought the wtimes was the clear conservative voice in the beltway? perhaps the post didn't ask tough questions, but neither did any major media outlet.
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
bright eyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2007, 10:56 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.

By the way what is an insurgent and what do they look like?

Someone tell me how we are fighting a war when we don't know who were fighting.
When Old George W and Cheney find out who we are fighting then I would hope that they would let the American people know. But who knows that might be TOP SECRET and only those with the "need to know" will be informed of whom the enemy is.

By the length of the WAR it appears that neither Old George W OR Cheney know who the real enemy is. I beleive that both of them might be dumbfounded on whom the enemy is.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).

GOD BLESS
Wags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 01:24 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,733
As US wars this is far from the longest and as counter-insurgencies go is short.

For example the Phillipine Insurgency involve 100-150,000 troops for 12 years 1901-1913 and cost almost 4,400 American lives a lot more Fillipino lives.

One of the major criticism of the war was "we don't know who we are fighting or why were are fighting them" somethings don't change.
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 05:28 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed View Post
Good news the numbers are going down...

i didn't know the wpost was considered a right wing mouthpiece for the prez? i thought the wtimes was the clear conservative voice in the beltway? perhaps the post didn't ask tough questions, but neither did any major media outlet.
bright eyed,

You are right, the Washington Post is a liberal newspaper that has been very critical of Bush. I was joking around a little there.

73ss454,
Yes, actually uniforms would be a good idea. I know you said it in jest, but it's an interesting point that if the bad guys in Iraq would wear uniforms and adhere to some fairly simple tenets they would instantly become "lawful combatants" and they would guarantee themselves the protection offered to such forces. Apparently, they don't want those protections as much as they want to sneak around at night and blow up their neighbors.
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 08:56 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
Well Sam, I think it's tough to win fighting with someone that thinks being dead is better than being alive. Our only hope is maybe they'll run out of virgins.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 10:01 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.
"The Americans can shoot from behind the rocks and trees, while the British must wear red, and march in a straight line..."

Bill Cosby, What If They Used A Coin Flip In History

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Our only hope is maybe they'll run out of virgins.
I'm doing what I can...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 10:58 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
Good example about us Americans except we weren't getting any virgins nor were we blowing ourselves up killing innocent people.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 03:49 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
History will determine how the Iraq war is viewed. And that determination might take some time.
I think it was about 25 years after the Vietnam War that Walter Cronkite admitted the US won the '68 Tet offensive and the war in the field but the US Government lost it in the eyes of the press and the American public.
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 06:38 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
samclem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Well Sam, I think it's tough to win fighting with someone that thinks being dead is better than being alive.
No, try to think of it in a positive way--we and the insurgents/terrorists/SOBs want exactly the same thing! They want to be dead and the coalition/Iraqi govt forces are accommodating them as fast as possible.

Not to make light of a grisly situation .
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 06:41 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
Your correct Sam, now we just have to figure out who they are.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 10:48 PM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Your correct Sam, now we just have to figure out who they are.
Old George W, Cheney, Rice and Company have NO idea who we are fighting. At times we are supporting the Sunnis then its the Shias. Now we do not know whether to back the Turks or the Kurds. While they are trying to decide who we are fighting OUR TROOPS and the IRAQI PEOPLE are being killed, wounded and maimed. That's what some would call a sound foreign policy.

For quite some time Old George W and Cheney have been saber rattling as it pertains to Iran. Now Cheney is at again Cheney: Iran will not get nuclear weapon - CNN.com

If you think that we have problems in Iraq now just wait until we attack Iran. Old George W's WAR will escalate and the whole MIDDLE EAST will probably explode with OUR TROOPS caught in the CHAOS. And while all of this is going on Old Osama Bin Laden will be on the sidelines running around FREE and mocking the U.S.A and the world with his videos. 5 plus years after 9/11 Bin Laden has made Old George W look like an incompetent DONKEY's BUTT and the GREAT SATAN look like a toothless tiger.

GOD BLESS
Wags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 04:22 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
73ss454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LaLa Land
Posts: 4,698
Don't you just love when they say our men on battle field. What battle field, our men and woman are just patroling waiting to be blown up or shot at.
73ss454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 08:15 AM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags View Post
Old George W, Cheney, Rice and Company have NO idea who we are fighting. At times we are supporting the Sunnis then its the Shias. Now we do not know whether to back the Turks or the Kurds. While they are trying to decide who we are fighting OUR TROOPS and the IRAQI PEOPLE are being killed, wounded and maimed. That's what some would call a sound foreign policy.

For quite some time Old George W and Cheney have been saber rattling as it pertains to Iran. Now Cheney is at again Cheney: Iran will not get nuclear weapon - CNN.com

If you think that we have problems in Iraq now just wait until we attack Iran. Old George W's WAR will escalate and the whole MIDDLE EAST will probably explode with OUR TROOPS caught in the CHAOS. And while all of this is going on Old Osama Bin Laden will be on the sidelines running around FREE and mocking the U.S.A and the world with his videos. 5 plus years after 9/11 Bin Laden has made Old George W look like an incompetent DONKEY's BUTT and the GREAT SATAN look like a toothless tiger.

GOD BLESS
Your posts have a common theme......you would like is to wait for the enemy to attack us again, like 9/11, then question why we didn't do something to prevent the attack..........

FWIW, I don't know where Bin Laden is either, but I think he's hiding out in a place where we can't go.......like IRAN............
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 09:04 AM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
Your posts have a common theme......you would like is to wait for the enemy to attack us again, like 9/11, then question why we didn't do something to prevent the attack..........

FWIW, I don't know where Bin Laden is either, but I think he's hiding out in a place where we can't go.......like IRAN............
There you go making ASSUMPTIONS that are DEAD WRONG and OFF THE MARK. And you know what they say about making assumptions.

DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE OR OR WOULD NOT LIKE.

As for Bin Laden maybe he would not be an issue today if your commander in chief Old George W had done the job right when OBL was trapped in the mountains of Afganistan and just maybe there would not be a resurgence of the Taliban in Afganistan if Old George W had not attacked and invaded Iraq. Plain AND simple your commander in chief took his eye off the prize which was Bin Laden. Sadamm had nothing to do with 9/11 and Bin Laden did.

Get real your commander in chief and his sidekick Cheney are saber rattling about Iran and WWIII. If Old George W attacks Iran will you enlist to go fight? OR would you like your children or grandchildren to go fight in HIS WAR if the DRAFT became a reality?

Your commander in chief is a very brave man who will send others to fight HIS WAR but when he had his chance he had DADDY(41) pull some strings so that he would not have to go fight in Vietnam. He would not make the ultimate sacrfice then but now he is content with sending others to be killed, wounded and maimed in HIS WAR THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A REAL MAN.

GOD BLESS
Wags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 10:03 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags View Post
DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE OR OR WOULD NOT LIKE.
I must be lost.....you never said WHAT you would like, just stated ALL the things you DON'T like.........:confused:

Quote:
As for Bin Laden maybe he would not be an issue today if your commander in chief Old George W had done the job right when OBL was trapped in the mountains of Afganistan and just maybe there would not be a resurgence of the Taliban in Afganistan if Old George W had not attacked and invaded Iraq. Plain AND simple your commander in chief took his eye off the prize which was Bin Laden. Sadamm had nothing to do with 9/11 and Bin Laden did.
Whether you like it or not, he's the Commander -In-Chied for the entire USA........

Quote:
but when he had his chance he had DADDY(41) pull some strings so that he would not have to go fight in Vietnam. He would not make the ultimate sacrfice then but now he is content with sending others to be killed, wounded and maimed in HIS WAR THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A REAL MAN.
Believe what you will but the main reason Dan Rather was kicked off the network was going too far down a path that turned out to be false............

Should be fun with Hillary in the White House.........

Where's Ross Perot when you need him??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iraqi Army is the enemy janeeyre Other topics 6 05-31-2007 02:26 PM
The Decline of the U.S. Dollar? thefed FIRE and Money 8 05-01-2007 04:51 AM
hanging -- the Iraqi style janeeyre Other topics 14 01-19-2007 09:57 AM
Reporter returns from Iraq and tells what the 'regular Iraqi' believes.......... Cut-Throat Other topics 11 09-20-2006 05:33 PM
Decline of the U.S. Middle Class? Cut-Throat Life after FIRE 83 09-10-2004 07:32 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.