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Both US and Iraqi Casualties Decline
Old 10-20-2007, 10:03 PM   #1
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Both US and Iraqi Casualties Decline

I'm sure everyone will be happy to read that the number of Americans and Iraqis killed in the violence there has shown another decrease. Since this hadn't made much of a splash in the evening news, I thought maybe some folks might be interested in the reported recent developments and trends. The Washington Post, a well recognized right-wing mouthpiece for the President, has noted the decrease in casualties in a recent editorial.

washingtonpost.com

To quote from the Post:
****************
"A congressional study and several news stories in September questioned reports by the U.S. military that casualties were down. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), challenging the testimony of Gen. David H. Petraeus, asserted that "civilian deaths have risen" during this year's surge of American forces.

A month later, there isn't much room for such debate, at least about the latest figures. In September, Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006, according to the Web site icasualties.org. The Iraqi Health Ministry and the Associated Press reported similar results."
***********************
I'm not a big believer that casualty numbers are a good metric for judging the state of progress in Iraq, but most people appear to believe that the body count is somehow significant in charting progress. I expect now these people will be full of kudos for our policies there.

What is especially noteworthy is that both US and Iraqi casualties are lower now than they were a year ago. Compared to a year ago, we have more Americans deployed (which some pundits said would only increase the number of targets available for extremists) and these troops are more exposed than a year ago-fewer are hunkered down in fortified strongholds, more are in the suburbs working directly with Iraqi security forces. Some believed that these two factors would have increased the number of Americans who were killed or wounded, but that has not happened. Instead, the numbers have decreased and the results on the ground have improved.

There's still a very long way to go--the Iraqi government is weak and not as effective as we would like, extremist elements of all stripes could launch a single simple but horrific attack tomorrow and kill hundreds. Nonetheless, as the daily news showers us with the obligatory 25 seconds of gore or the latest snippet intended to generate outrage or sell papers, it's important to see the forest for the trees, and to relish positive developments as we all (in the US and in Iraq) work to address the many remaining challenges.
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:39 PM   #2
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Whether or not you think that the Bush administration is or is not wise or competent, fewer folks are getting killed in Iraq is good.
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:14 PM   #3
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I hope this proves to be long term and not some seasonal relief.
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Both US and Iraqi Casualities Decline
Old 10-20-2007, 11:29 PM   #4
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Both US and Iraqi Casualities Decline

It is good that there are fewer deaths.

But the fact still remains that it was the WRONG WAR at the WRONG TIME. Old George W's failed policies have resulted in over 3800 plus of OUR TROOPS killed, an estimated 25000 to 30000 of OUR TROOPS wounded and maimed and an estimated 500000 to 1000000 of the IRAQI PEOPLE killed, wounded and maimed.

ONE DEATH WAS ONE TOO MANY.

There was an article in SI.com by Dave Zirin about a pro basketball Etan Thomas (had major heart surgery) who wrote a poem on the war.
SI.com - Writers - The activist athlete (cont.) - Monday October 15, 2007 5:19PM

Here is Etan Thomas' poem

In front of 10,000 of his closest friends, (preceding his surgery)at an anti war rally Etan Thomas said of President Bush:

"If he says he's a Christian doesn't mean he follows Christ
Because he's the President doesn't mean that he's bright
Just means you need to research what his speech writer writes
But through methods of deception he made y'all think that he's right

You owe us
For every mother who will never see their son again
Every husband whose lives you've ruined
Who will never taste the sweet lips of their wife's kiss
Left with the stale bitterness of death to caress their reality
You've created whirlwinds of a widowed future
Causing pain and suffering to give birth to normality
Their blood is on your hands
I hope their pain haunts you while you're sleeping
Wakes you up at night with the cries of the lives you've destroyed
Visions of caskets should dance in your head
I hope your conscious shouts in your ears that our heroes deserved better
Rest in peace to the abundance of lives you've ceased
Mr. Commander and Chief
You owe them more
They put their trust in you
Riding in a ship that we all knew would sink
A medal of honor to put in their grave is a slap in the face
Human life is precious no matter what you think
And even after all that ...
You're still committed to continuing a winning-less battle
You don't know when to say when
You can't even admit that you made a mistake
So how can the healing possibly begin"

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, OUR FALLEN TROOPS, OUR VETERANS, THEIR FAMILIES, AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE

WAGS
Lifetime Member of the DAV
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:51 PM   #5
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Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.

By the way what is an insurgent and what do they look like?

Someone tell me how we are fighting a war when we don't know who were fighting.
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:55 PM   #6
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Good news the numbers are going down...

i didn't know the wpost was considered a right wing mouthpiece for the prez? i thought the wtimes was the clear conservative voice in the beltway? perhaps the post didn't ask tough questions, but neither did any major media outlet.
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:56 PM   #7
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Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.

By the way what is an insurgent and what do they look like?

Someone tell me how we are fighting a war when we don't know who were fighting.
When Old George W and Cheney find out who we are fighting then I would hope that they would let the American people know. But who knows that might be TOP SECRET and only those with the "need to know" will be informed of whom the enemy is.

By the length of the WAR it appears that neither Old George W OR Cheney know who the real enemy is. I beleive that both of them might be dumbfounded on whom the enemy is.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).

GOD BLESS
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:24 AM   #8
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As US wars this is far from the longest and as counter-insurgencies go is short.

For example the Phillipine Insurgency involve 100-150,000 troops for 12 years 1901-1913 and cost almost 4,400 American lives a lot more Fillipino lives.

One of the major criticism of the war was "we don't know who we are fighting or why were are fighting them" somethings don't change.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:28 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by bright eyed View Post
Good news the numbers are going down...

i didn't know the wpost was considered a right wing mouthpiece for the prez? i thought the wtimes was the clear conservative voice in the beltway? perhaps the post didn't ask tough questions, but neither did any major media outlet.
bright eyed,

You are right, the Washington Post is a liberal newspaper that has been very critical of Bush. I was joking around a little there.

73ss454,
Yes, actually uniforms would be a good idea. I know you said it in jest, but it's an interesting point that if the bad guys in Iraq would wear uniforms and adhere to some fairly simple tenets they would instantly become "lawful combatants" and they would guarantee themselves the protection offered to such forces. Apparently, they don't want those protections as much as they want to sneak around at night and blow up their neighbors.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:56 AM   #10
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Well Sam, I think it's tough to win fighting with someone that thinks being dead is better than being alive. Our only hope is maybe they'll run out of virgins.
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Now, if we could only figure out who we are fighting. Maybe we can spend some more $ and get the enemy uniforms.
"The Americans can shoot from behind the rocks and trees, while the British must wear red, and march in a straight line..."

Bill Cosby, What If They Used A Coin Flip In History

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Our only hope is maybe they'll run out of virgins.
I'm doing what I can...
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:58 AM   #12
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Good example about us Americans except we weren't getting any virgins nor were we blowing ourselves up killing innocent people.
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Old 10-21-2007, 04:49 PM   #13
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History will determine how the Iraq war is viewed. And that determination might take some time.
I think it was about 25 years after the Vietnam War that Walter Cronkite admitted the US won the '68 Tet offensive and the war in the field but the US Government lost it in the eyes of the press and the American public.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:38 PM   #14
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Well Sam, I think it's tough to win fighting with someone that thinks being dead is better than being alive.
No, try to think of it in a positive way--we and the insurgents/terrorists/SOBs want exactly the same thing! They want to be dead and the coalition/Iraqi govt forces are accommodating them as fast as possible.

Not to make light of a grisly situation .
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:41 PM   #15
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Your correct Sam, now we just have to figure out who they are.
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:48 PM   #16
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Your correct Sam, now we just have to figure out who they are.
Old George W, Cheney, Rice and Company have NO idea who we are fighting. At times we are supporting the Sunnis then its the Shias. Now we do not know whether to back the Turks or the Kurds. While they are trying to decide who we are fighting OUR TROOPS and the IRAQI PEOPLE are being killed, wounded and maimed. That's what some would call a sound foreign policy.

For quite some time Old George W and Cheney have been saber rattling as it pertains to Iran. Now Cheney is at again Cheney: Iran will not get nuclear weapon - CNN.com

If you think that we have problems in Iraq now just wait until we attack Iran. Old George W's WAR will escalate and the whole MIDDLE EAST will probably explode with OUR TROOPS caught in the CHAOS. And while all of this is going on Old Osama Bin Laden will be on the sidelines running around FREE and mocking the U.S.A and the world with his videos. 5 plus years after 9/11 Bin Laden has made Old George W look like an incompetent DONKEY's BUTT and the GREAT SATAN look like a toothless tiger.

GOD BLESS
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:22 AM   #17
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Don't you just love when they say our men on battle field. What battle field, our men and woman are just patroling waiting to be blown up or shot at.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Wags View Post
Old George W, Cheney, Rice and Company have NO idea who we are fighting. At times we are supporting the Sunnis then its the Shias. Now we do not know whether to back the Turks or the Kurds. While they are trying to decide who we are fighting OUR TROOPS and the IRAQI PEOPLE are being killed, wounded and maimed. That's what some would call a sound foreign policy.

For quite some time Old George W and Cheney have been saber rattling as it pertains to Iran. Now Cheney is at again Cheney: Iran will not get nuclear weapon - CNN.com

If you think that we have problems in Iraq now just wait until we attack Iran. Old George W's WAR will escalate and the whole MIDDLE EAST will probably explode with OUR TROOPS caught in the CHAOS. And while all of this is going on Old Osama Bin Laden will be on the sidelines running around FREE and mocking the U.S.A and the world with his videos. 5 plus years after 9/11 Bin Laden has made Old George W look like an incompetent DONKEY's BUTT and the GREAT SATAN look like a toothless tiger.

GOD BLESS
Your posts have a common theme......you would like is to wait for the enemy to attack us again, like 9/11, then question why we didn't do something to prevent the attack..........

FWIW, I don't know where Bin Laden is either, but I think he's hiding out in a place where we can't go.......like IRAN............
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:04 AM   #19
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Your posts have a common theme......you would like is to wait for the enemy to attack us again, like 9/11, then question why we didn't do something to prevent the attack..........

FWIW, I don't know where Bin Laden is either, but I think he's hiding out in a place where we can't go.......like IRAN............
There you go making ASSUMPTIONS that are DEAD WRONG and OFF THE MARK. And you know what they say about making assumptions.

DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE OR OR WOULD NOT LIKE.

As for Bin Laden maybe he would not be an issue today if your commander in chief Old George W had done the job right when OBL was trapped in the mountains of Afganistan and just maybe there would not be a resurgence of the Taliban in Afganistan if Old George W had not attacked and invaded Iraq. Plain AND simple your commander in chief took his eye off the prize which was Bin Laden. Sadamm had nothing to do with 9/11 and Bin Laden did.

Get real your commander in chief and his sidekick Cheney are saber rattling about Iran and WWIII. If Old George W attacks Iran will you enlist to go fight? OR would you like your children or grandchildren to go fight in HIS WAR if the DRAFT became a reality?

Your commander in chief is a very brave man who will send others to fight HIS WAR but when he had his chance he had DADDY(41) pull some strings so that he would not have to go fight in Vietnam. He would not make the ultimate sacrfice then but now he is content with sending others to be killed, wounded and maimed in HIS WAR THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A REAL MAN.

GOD BLESS
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:03 AM   #20
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DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE OR OR WOULD NOT LIKE.
I must be lost.....you never said WHAT you would like, just stated ALL the things you DON'T like.........:confused:

Quote:
As for Bin Laden maybe he would not be an issue today if your commander in chief Old George W had done the job right when OBL was trapped in the mountains of Afganistan and just maybe there would not be a resurgence of the Taliban in Afganistan if Old George W had not attacked and invaded Iraq. Plain AND simple your commander in chief took his eye off the prize which was Bin Laden. Sadamm had nothing to do with 9/11 and Bin Laden did.
Whether you like it or not, he's the Commander -In-Chied for the entire USA........

Quote:
but when he had his chance he had DADDY(41) pull some strings so that he would not have to go fight in Vietnam. He would not make the ultimate sacrfice then but now he is content with sending others to be killed, wounded and maimed in HIS WAR THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A REAL MAN.
Believe what you will but the main reason Dan Rather was kicked off the network was going too far down a path that turned out to be false............

Should be fun with Hillary in the White House.........

Where's Ross Perot when you need him??
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