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Old 08-10-2009, 11:50 AM   #41
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...
Plus, I don't think anyone "kicked sand in her face". ... information was not getting across (see my earlier loooong post), and I think that may have led to what looked like people being on the "forceful" side of it.

In fact, I personally take some slight offense in you saying what we did was "shameful". But that's OK, I am not about to make a big deal about it or go off in a huff.
...

So what do you suggest? Next time a person's post contains something we may be able to help them with, just be quiet so we don't possibly risk offending them? Please don't do that for me - I welcome helpful advice. I even welcome un-helpful (but well intentioned) advice, because sometimes it makes me re-think my position, or makes me think "outside the box" and triggers an even better idea.

This ain't tea with the Queen - it's a jungle out there, and I think we can benefit from each other's views.

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Some, and by some I mean me, don't care for anything that smells of debate or argument or conflict. Some put their contributions out there and if they are accepted or picked up, fine, if not, well, they've said their piece.

It is good that you offered what you believe to be an incontrovertible answer to a perceived problem. I'm reminded however that sometimes people (not to say women) just want to talk, while other people (not to say men) want to provide solutions. In this house sometimes providing the solution is not the answer. I keep learning that.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:25 PM   #42
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Late to comment, Lady Patriot, but I just want to congratulate you on raising a very savvy librarian! I wished I had the fortitude at her age to stick it out in such a rigorous degree program, as I love libraries! I do hope to volunteer at our local one when I FIRE.

And speaking as a debt free person, I applaud her decision to pay off the loan. Please forgive/ignore those engineers and their unsolicited advice--they just can't help it, I guess.

The rest of us are just delighted to hear of young people who are concerned about carrying debt. Thanks for sharing and for your extremely cordial replies to those that insisted on "correcting the error of your ways".

All the best,
Sarah
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:39 PM   #43
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And speaking as a debt free person, I applaud her decision to pay off the loan. Please forgive/ignore those engineers and their unsolicited advice--they just can't help it, I guess.

The rest of us are just delighted to hear of young people who are concerned about carrying debt.
Ditto, except that I am an engineer by trade, more or less...

In reality, I wouldn't personally pass up the "free money" of a company match in a 401K or 403B plan, but everyone marches to their own drumbeat. And as I said in another thread, the most important thing is to consistently generate positive cash flows which trickle into the net worth statement -- consistently earn more than you spend and let the difference build net worth, whether through increased assets or reduced liabilities.

In the grand scheme of things, employer match notwithstanding, the most important thing is that she is using the excess cash flows to build net worth rather than blow it all on consumption. Those are the habits that build wealth and secure the future, regardless of whether it goes into investments or debt reduction. Relative to the decision to use extra cash flow to enhance net worth, the choice of investing or paying off debt is "small stuff" which doesn't need to be heavily sweated.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:53 PM   #44
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Ditto, except that I am an engineer by trade, more or less...

In reality, I wouldn't personally pass up the "free money" of a company match in a 401K or 403B plan, but everyone marches to their own drumbeat. And as I said in another thread, the most important thing is to consistently generate positive cash flows which trickle into the net worth statement -- consistently earn more than you spend and let the difference build net worth, whether through increased assets or reduced liabilities.

In the grand scheme of things, employer match notwithstanding, the most important thing is that she is using the excess cash flows to build net worth rather than blow it all on consumption. Those are the habits that build wealth and secure the future, regardless of whether it goes into investments or debt reduction. Relative to the decision to use extra cash flow to enhance net worth, the choice of investing or paying off debt is "small stuff" which doesn't need to be heavily sweated.
I definitely agree with this take on things. The main objective, if one wants to become wealthy, it to increase net worth. I almost cross posted with you, Ziggy, about that exact topic. Whether net worth is increased by decreasing liabilities or by increasing productive assets, in the end you are still increasing net worth.

But that whole "sub-optimal" approach bugs me. Blowing money on junk ranks about a 2 out of 10 on the financial responsibility scale. Paying down debt ranks pretty high - say 9 out of 10. Contributing the minimum to a 401k to get the match might be just a little bit more optimal - 10 out of 10. Obviously the terms of the debt and the details of the 401k plan and matching percentages factor in to the rankings.

Of course I'm the guy with $120,000 of student loan debts with above the line fully tax deductible interest rates of 0.75% to 1.75% fixed for 26 more years. I don't ever intend to pay these loans down any more than the required minimum payments. This is "good debt" per my engineering analysis.
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Old 08-10-2009, 02:24 PM   #45
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Congratulations, LP, itís got to be a joy to see your kids turn out so well. Love their LBYM techniques, seems like very few out there are willing to ride public transit and share living quarters.

Iíve been boggled by the way libraries have changed in the last few years. I go to two libraries, one has an automatic checkout system, just put your card thru and you donít see anyone unless you have a non-routine question. Iím also experimenting with downloading books from their collection, so far I donít like that very much but maybe Iíll get used to it; still prefer the Kindle to reading on the laptop. The other library has real people who talk to everyone checking out the books.

What does a reference librarian do these days? I think Iíve underutilized them in the past. Apparently you can ask them any question and they can help steer you to the answer. At my library they also teach computer research techniques. As far as I can tell, itís the best job there. They put out a list of new books every month which includes book reviews by employees.
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Old 08-10-2009, 03:08 PM   #46
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Desk Set [DVD] [1957]: Amazon.co.uk: Spencer Tracy, Katharine Hepburn, Gig Young, Joan Blondell, Dina Merrill, Walter Lang: DVD

Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy play out the cold world of new fangled punch card computer logic vs. the comely and human logic of the reference librarian staff. Has anything changed?
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Old 08-10-2009, 03:12 PM   #47
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Desk Set [DVD] [1957]: Amazon.co.uk: Spencer Tracy, Katharine Hepburn, Gig Young, Joan Blondell, Dina Merrill, Walter Lang: DVD

Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy play out the cold world of new fangled punch card computer logic vs. the comely and human logic of the reference librarian staff. Has anything changed?
One of my wife's favorite movies, I'd add.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:32 PM   #48
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Ours is the old fashioned type of library--with the folks checking out books by hand, though they are bar-coded.

Kinda off topic, but I was checking out some books the other day on assisted suicide and the right to die movement (Final Exit and one called To Die Well) and felt compelled to explain that I wasn't really reading these for myself, but for a research project for class.
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:57 PM   #49
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The next time the engineers get all "sub opitimal", send them to http thereifixedit dot com

Enough kludges there to keep anyone busy for a while!

ta,
mew
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:52 AM   #50
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Some, and by some I mean me, don't care for anything that smells of debate or argument or conflict. Some put their contributions out there and if they are accepted or picked up, fine, if not, well, they've said their piece.
OK. But considering that this is a ___discussion____ forum, then I think that anyone who posts something and is opposed to a discussion on that topic should make that crystal clear from the onset.

I think I've done that a few times. For example, I might want to discuss one aspect of what might be an hot topic for some, so I'll ask, "let's please not go off on the merits of x,y,z, but could we stick to this one detail of it that I'd like to discuss?".

So, in that case, join in if you want to discuss that detail in isolation, skip it if you can't do it w/o jumping into the big hot topic.

Seem fair?

-ERD50
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:27 AM   #51
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As this thread has meandered quite a distance into argumentation (from the OP's post about her daughter's remarkable accomplishments), it is now locked.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:31 AM   #52
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